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 Post subject: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:50 am 
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Hi all,

at first: I wish everyone a happy new year :cheers:

and now some questions:
i have a zx9r engine sitting around and would like to know what options i have to fit some crossfire injectors.
Is it good to place the injecton before the carb?? :?:
And does somebody know how much that engine could handle with less modifications?
If i could add 50 - 60 hp i would be happy.

This is just a "what if..." question as i have some pulsoids and some injectors from my BMW. (don´t know the future of my BMW at the moment)


Greetings Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Grimmjar wrote:
Hi all,

at first: I wish everyone a happy new year :cheers:
Hi Thomas and likewise to you.

and now some questions:
i have a zx9r engine sitting around and would like to know what options i have to fit some crossfire injectors.
Is it good to place the injecton before the carb?? :?:
That 'should' be OK but on some bikes the carbs don't respond well at low speeds to having nitrous blown through them. As long as you have reasonably high rpm and road speed you should be OK but you might suffer a stall if you tried to launch using the system with the injectors before the carbs.

And does somebody know how much that engine could handle with less modifications?
If i could add 50 - 60 hp i would be happy.
MOST Jap bikes in the 900cc + region will handle at least 75 hp without ANY mods but you'd need to check the fuel tap allows adequate flow and you're likely to need to fit Dyna coils and leads, as Jap fuel taps, coils and leads are ALL barely adequate for standard use.

This is just a "what if..." question as i have some pulsoids and some injectors from my BMW. (don´t know the future of my BMW at the moment)
Sorry to hear that, as I'm sure there is MUCH MORE potential from that car/engine combination.

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:37 pm 
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Fuel and Spark should be no problem.
The Fuel to the Pulsoids will come from a high pressure Bosch pump and pressure regulator.
And i think i can/could use other Coils (BMW) that i have around.

Quote:
That 'should' be OK but on some bikes the carbs don't respond well at low speeds to having nitrous blown through them.


This is a reason to reconsider the idea. Maybe there is enough room between carb and head. It looks realy tight.

The BMW:
At the moment i have not much time and i also have to find a stronger rear axle. With out new rear end it makes no sense. When i get a bit of traction in 1st gear the rear goes BOOOM. :?
But maybe i´ll build up a new car with the V12 more to the middle of the car and better handling.
we´ll see... :bigsmurf:


Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:01 am 
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Grimmjar wrote:
Fuel and Spark should be no problem.
The Fuel to the Pulsoids will come from a high pressure Bosch pump and pressure regulator.
That should be acceptable

And i think i can/could use other Coils (BMW) that i have around.
I STRONGLY advise you NOT to JUST fit ANY coils that you THINK will be better quality. It is VITAL for performance and reliability to MATCH the coils to the ignition system, so you CAN'T just throw on a set of coils that MIGHT be right.
The very least you need to dso is match the coil resistance.


This is a reason to reconsider the idea. Maybe there is enough room between carb and head. It looks realy tight.
I may have adaptor plates that MIGHT fit between the adaptor rubbers and the head, IF they are a 2 bolt flange type, otherwise you could try getting some thick/strong radiator type hose and cutting pieces a longer length than the original rubbers and using those.

The BMW:
At the moment i have not much time and i also have to find a stronger rear axle. With out new rear end it makes no sense. When i get a bit of traction in 1st gear the rear goes BOOOM. :?
Try launching in 2nd and or trying to add enough nitrous to keep the wheels spinning a little as optimum acceleration is achieved with a degree of wheel spin NOT with perfect traction.
BTW what part of the diff breaks?


But maybe i´ll build up a new car with the V12 more to the middle of the car and better handling.
we´ll see... :bigsmurf:
Now that sounds like a good idea but surely a better axle and gearbox (even if my previous suggestions didn't work), would be a quicker and cheaper option. ;)


Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:08 am 
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QUOTE: add enough nitrous to keep the wheels spinning a little as optimum acceleration is achieved with a degree of wheel spin NOT with perfect traction. And this talk of busting axels scares me.

Blimmey Trev, that never occurred to me.
I always keep the traction control on too.
Is this where you tell me, the beamer is capable of a lot more if I drive better :D

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:13 am 
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:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:22 am 
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It was the CV joint.
If i start in 2nd gear i think i will burn the clutch.

Diff is a 188mm ring gear and it´s still the first.


If i build a new car i could safe like 300kg and i can place the engine more to the centre of the car.
I can´t safe much more weight on the BMW and the amount of money, time and work would be the same or even more.

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:00 pm 
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I assume you mean the CV joint that links the prop to the diff? If that's the case then you should be able to just fit a bigger/stronger prop shaft with bigger/stronger CV joints.
If you can't get that done in Germany, we have companies here that could do that and it shouldn't cost a huge amount of money.
Obviously lighter would be better BUT going the whole new car route would stop you racing for probably at least a year, whereas improving on what you have should be so quick as to avoid missing any races.
Despite the car being heavy, you still have a HUGE amount of potential power from the nitrous on such a big engine, so as long as you can get the power to the track, you still have the ability to run quicker times. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:57 pm 
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Little bigger and much stroger prop shaft is in the Z3 M-Roadster. The whole rear axle would be plug´n´play or close to...
like this one
1.4 60ft...

The thing is i like my BMW but i also would like to build a new car. I need something new and something to do.

Back to the Bike(/Kart ;) ) engine:
Just had a look and it is a 2 bolt flange. But i don´t know the diameter.
But i might be able to put the crossfire injectors in the existing flange. It´s tight but it could fit.
In a week i will take off the carbs and see what i can do.


Thomas

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Last edited by Grimmjar on Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:16 pm 
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8)

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:26 pm 
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Some pics.
I can make the Crossfire fit. Easy way from the top.

Image

Image

Not soeasy from the bottom but it is doable.

Image

The frame i like to go with.

Image

Image

New wheels under the seat. 10x10 rims and soft tires.
I hope we get it done in spring.

Image

Image

Image

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Last edited by Grimmjar on Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:41 pm 
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As you have room , why not use the alloy plates that you fit between the head and your inlet rubbers to mount the injectors usally these are for NOS foggers but im sure would be no great task to make some up or adapt some for correct thread

If you not sure what im on about ill try and find you a pic


Tezz


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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:14 pm 
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Just as Tezz say Thomas, you'd be better off with plates.

What you probably don't know yet is that there is any alloy skeleton inside PART of the rubber (the cylinder head end), which makes it very awkward to put a hole in it.
It would be a much easier job to fit Venom's in to the rubbers than the Crossfires.

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:14 pm 
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I know what you mean.
I could have water cut spacers.
And it would make it easier to fit the injectors from the bottom side.
I still like to go with crossfire injectors because i already have two of them.

What i need:
2x Crossfire
4x Y- Piece
Some jets, N & F lines and olives in 4mm and 5mm.

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:39 pm 
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Grimmjar wrote:
I know what you mean.
I could have water cut spacers.
And it would make it easier to fit the injectors from the bottom side.
I still like to go with crossfire injectors because i already have two of them.

What i need:
2x Crossfire
4x Y- Piece
Some jets, N & F lines and olives in 4mm and 5mm.


I could have water cut spacers i have no idea what this means ?

Your inlet rubbers are very very short it will make drilling a hole very hard ,

Ill try and explain construction of the inlet rubber, the base plate of the inlet rubber that bolts to your cylinder head is not flat on the side facing the Carbs it has a Flange you canot see that extendends into the inlet rubber towards carb this is then covered in rubber making it hidden from eye ,only the bit that fits onto carb is all rubber and a small bit between the carb and the flange

This will make fitting the Fatter crossfire difficult as you may drill or hit edge of flange and slip or make hole wrong

You could have a very simple ally spacer made up to fit between carb inlet rubbers and cylinder head fat enought to take a cross fire and just use longer bolts to hold on the inlet rubber and and spacer

a set of 4 inlet rubbers for my bike are £120 and this is my 2nd set :( :( and i use the thinner Venoms

If i had Know Trev had the spacers sitting on shelf i would have def used them but ya live and learn

Tezz


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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:02 pm 
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Water cut.... Ok, it´s called "Water jet cutting".

Image

So the spacers would be no problem and a quite cheap thing for me (like 15euro or so).


Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:08 pm 
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Hmmmm, water jet,nice....want one.

Crazy looking car !!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:28 pm 
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battyone wrote:
Hmmmm, water jet,nice....want one.


Me Too!!!! Even got space in me unit!! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:20 pm 
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If you get one steve,I'll come to you for all my gaskets,spacer plates,clutch steels and sundry bracketry needs.They're all using laser cutting round here,I've tried getting clutch steels cut and they warp.

I've barely got room for me and my bikes in my sheds,working on two at a time I'm seriously short on space.

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:11 am 
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LOL, i know what you mean.........

Unfortunately i dont have the £250k required for water jet cutter

Funnilly enough, i used to work for a firm that bought one. They went and saw a demo and came back raving about it and placed an order for said machine. It arrived, got all set up, ran the first few progs, still raving about it and how much faster it was.
Only problem was, nobody at any point, bothered asking if the aluminium they wanted to cut with it would be weldable afterwards................. OOOOOPPPSSS
When i say weldable, i dont mean johnny backstreet with his inverter TIG set, i mean coded tested x-rayed type welding (road going petrol tankers as it goes, 36,000 litre jobbies) and guess what..... Not a f**king hope!!! Coz it uses grit in the water jet to do the cutting, and ally being soft, the inclusions in the weld were unreal, not to mention the water stain hassles to go with it.
Needless to say same management team went on to make a viable business bankrupt!!

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:13 pm 
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Distribution: talking about inner diameter.

Would it help if i use the 4mm high pressure Nitrous pipes after Pulsoids? ID is 2mm compared to 2.5mm.
For 4 Injectors together i´ll flow a max of 60-70hp.


My part list so far:

2x Crossfire
4x Y-Pieces 4mm/4mm
30x 4mm Nut/Olive
10x 5mm Nut/Olive
Fuel/Nitrous lines
Metering Jets

all in all about 350,- euro.

I also checked the rubber flange and i can fit the injectors in there!


Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:52 am 
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Grimmjar wrote:
Distribution: talking about inner diameter.

Would it help if i use the 4mm high pressure Nitrous pipes after Pulsoids? ID is 2mm compared to 2.5mm.
For 4 Injectors together i´ll flow a max of 60-70hp.
Yes and it would also help in general.


My part list so far:

2x Crossfire
4x Y-Pieces 4mm/4mm
30x 4mm Nut/Olive
10x 5mm Nut/Olive
Fuel/Nitrous lines
Metering Jets

all in all about 350,- euro.

I also checked the rubber flange and i can fit the injectors in there!
Excellent, just order online when you're ready or drop me an email and I'll get it sorted for you. :yes:


Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:23 am 
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Hi Trev,

would it be possible to make some 4mm pipes with different ID? Like 0.5mm steps.
I think it would help all of us to fine tune the system with D-Blocks on 4 and 6 cylinder engines.
"Depending on # of Pulsoid pairs and # of Injectors at that Power level you need that pipe!"
And using a smaller fuel pipe you don´t need to use a longer nitrous pipe.

At this moment i think that would be a cheap solution? I would spend the extra money!

What do you think? I´m sure you spend a moment on this in the past.

Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:40 am 
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Unfortunately we're limited with the sizes we currently have as the manufacturers find it too difficult to make smaller OD but at least we can get close and certainly closer than any other company even gives thought to doing. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire injectors for a ´01 zx9r?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Quote:
manufacturers find it too difficult to make smaller OD


You mean ID?


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