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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:00 pm 
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It makes sense. Now I just need to up grade the coils. I like the Takai coils. Space is at a premium so the stick coils will be ideal. I sent the Takai link to my engine builder. He knows what I need.

There is a problem with the signal that comes from the pick up on my bike. For some reason it will not talk to MSD or the other ignition units. I was very happy to find the BRT R tis ignition system.
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xclr82xtc
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:53 pm 
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yeah first thing i would do is upgrade the coils.. the takia ones are excellent. then if your still having problems, look at voltage. with a lithium battery you would be fine for 3 miles even with the nitrous. i know guys that race all weekend and never charge the battery and they are cranking 1600 cc's of high compression busa engine.

to be honest you would probably be better off with a more powerful stand alone setup like a msd, or pro series that uses its own crank trigger and everything.. just get the whole 9 in one package and be done with it..


Last edited by xclr82xtc on Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:59 pm 
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The first race is in April. I can get coils and put it back on the dyno in Febuary. That sounds like a plan.
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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:06 pm 
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I spoke with Mark at Takai this morning. The coils are on there way. I also ordered a set of iridium plugs.
http://www.takai-racing.com/takai/takai ... p-238.html
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xclr82xtc
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:52 am 
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eh... i might be kinda iffy on those plugs.. ive never had good luck with iridium and nitrous... but i guess if you pay attention to them, and get the heat range right, your good.. standard rule is a step colder than you were with normal plugs... at least thats what ive always been told.
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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:59 am 
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I am not a big fan of exotic plugs. And I will not be using them for tuning. I am going back on the dyno , just as I left off. With the new coils. Then try a set of plugs with a tighter gap.
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xclr82xtc
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:06 am 
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leave the gap where it was and see how it does.. you want to open the gap up as much as possible.
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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:18 am 
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It's really close on there . Stock gap with a shim or it will tap the top of the piston.
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Noswizard
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:05 am 
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I'm not a big fan of 'fancy' plugs but my small car customers swear by NGK Iridiums.

Avoid Denso plugs at all costs.

A bigger plug gap is the best option AS LONG AS the spark strength is adequate to ump it, otherwise it needs to be whatever size it will jump and make peak power.

When you work on your next motor/pistons, it would be wise to scoop out a LITTLE pocket where the plug gets close to the piston, as being that close could inhibit flame propagation and 'possibly' increase the risk of detonation.

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30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!

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xclr82xtc
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:10 am 
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yeah it can actually cause a shockwave as the air is being squeezed so fast. that shock wave (while it really isnt detonation) can actually put out the flame.. ive read about that before... i have to dig and see if i can find the article.
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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:54 pm 
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If you look at the latest head work I did . The plug sits in the middle of four valves. There was a large lump around the plug. As I deshrouded the valves I removed about 2-3 mm I will raise the plug with shims to keep the thread part of the plug out of the combustion chamber. Plus I will trim the ground electrode and gap it from the side.. I can even index to plug so the ground strap is lined up with the intake valves.
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Noswizard
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:28 pm 
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ALL EXCELLENT!!!! :salute:

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!

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xclr82xtc
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:37 pm 
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yep.. most people dont know how much power simple things like indexing plugs is worth. But once again, plugs are ususually designed with a given amount of thread sticking out, so stay on top of the heat range. your getting close to what would be considered an extreme level of nitrous, considering your shot and engine sizes.
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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:41 pm 
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I use copper shims to help with heat transfer. This is all a pre curser to a really extream bike.
I intend to retire this bike after this year. The next bike will use the same engine but be built around a fuel injection system and REVO nitrous system and a set of AC Delco coils built for the new Corvette.

Finding the shortcoming this year will really help with the next bike.
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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:23 am 
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I got the coils and made the wiring harness. They are very nice. And they save space. I will be back on the dyno in a couple weeks.

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Noswizard
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:25 am 
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8)

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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:38 pm 
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While lying in bed I realsied I went 123 mph and the tack read 12500 rpm. On the dyno I had double the power but the same RPM. In order to go faster I need to change the rear sprocket. The bike came with a 14 front and a 45 rear. I made my last run using 16front( biggest that will fit) and a 41 rear . Smallest they make. Today I ordered 40 and 39 tooth gears.
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Noswizard
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:44 pm 
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Plus the taller the gearing the better nitrous works and the quicker you will accelerate.

On or two teeth on the back isn't going to make a lot of difference though, I'd expect you to need at least 4 or 5 or even more.

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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Each tooth is worth 3 mph. I am at 123 and want 125. So one tooth will do it at the same RPM.and I have another also. I am going two up and six down from stock. If I can go faster I will keep buying gears. But I need to get each one custom made.
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Noswizard
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:25 pm 
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I forgot that your goal wasn't very far away and was thinking of what you'd need to exploit the full potential of the power you will ultimately make. :D

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:55 pm 
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I also have trouble containing my enthusiasm. The potential of this bike is very exciting. But I must stay focused on the task at hand.

After the 125 mph mark is reached. The next hurdle will be to get that speed without the fairing. My fairing is very pretty but crap aerodynamically so this should be easy.

But the real challenge will be to go 137 without a fairing at Bonneville. That will be a real test. What I do now is ride a mile and my speed is measured for 133 feet at the end.

The salt will be a whole different game. I need a 138 mph record. No fairing at 5000 feet. But unlike what I do now. Bonneville is a five mile track. You go one mile just to get up to speed. Then you enter the timed mile. The speed is calculated by your time over the mile. Then again And again. And a mile to stop. If the bikes goes 138 mph I must do it again from the other direction. A record is the average of the two runs. That is six miles of wide open full power nitrous delivery. I need to make triple the power the engine came with for five minutes.

This will require a whole new bike. Bigger radiator bigger fuel tank bigger nitrous bottles. Fuel injection data logging and the REVO system so the nitrous can keep its mixture stable with bottle pressure dropping. I am going to beat a two stroke with a four stroke. So I am really going to have to pull out all the stops.
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Noswizard
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:47 pm 
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AWESOME!!!!! :salute: :salute: :salute:

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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Just to update the progress of the bike. I went on the Dyno at Bikes Built Better. I spent the day playing with timing and jetting. And setting up the nitrous delay. Things like that.
We spent the day carefully leaning out the top end and holding more consistent power. I am running a gravity feed system and have way more fuel available. Adding 25 hp was perfect. It held over 50 hp out past 13000 Rpm and made a 100% more power at 12000.
Image

This is all on the old motor from last season. I just changed the oil. No damage from 60 dyno pulls with nitrous,

This is a video of the early run. When I put my foot on the floor you can hear the engine sound change.

http://youtu.be/XukbeavNwdg
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Racer X
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:59 pm 
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Back from a bit of a break.
I am getting ready for the next race. It is in three weeks. I have to do a couple things. One is to finish the bottle heater installation. The second bike bottle heater will be here any day. That will be it for the bike.

I need to select a fuel to race with. I set the bike up using Shell V power 93 octane fuel. When I go to the track I will run the bike in what is called the GAS class. No nitrous for the first pass. That will set a record and it will be cold. Great for N/A running. and I don't have to rush the bottle heating.

I need to buy fuel at the track and have the tank sealed for the class. I can change fuel but since I tuned with pump gas I can just run the same type with and without the nitrous. I don't want to add a lot of Octane. It was perfect on the dyno with 93. I could go to 98 but over 100 will reduce power. I don't want Oxygen either because I did not tune with it.
I was thinking VP C10
VP fuel is the track vendor these are my choices.
http://ecta-lsr.net/?page_id=950

For the nitrous bottle pressure I have a plan.
I have a BIG bottle heater on my FILL bottle. This is my plan. tell me if it is OK. I will heat the BIG bottle to 1000 PSI. keep the little bottles cold. Then fill the small cold bottles with 1000 PSI 1.5 lb of nitrous. Then when I get to the starting line the bottles will still be at a high pressure. I will not have to do much to heat them to 950 psi.
If they heat up to much in the sun they will just vent a little.
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Noswizard
 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:06 pm 
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Racer X wrote:
Back from a bit of a break.
I am getting ready for the next race. It is in three weeks. I have to do a couple things. One is to finish the bottle heater installation. The second bike bottle heater will be here any day. That will be it for the bike.
I thought we sent you the 2nd bottle heater WEEKS AGO????

I need to select a fuel to race with. I set the bike up using Shell V power 93 octane fuel. When I go to the track I will run the bike in what is called the GAS class. No nitrous for the first pass. That will set a record and it will be cold. Great for N/A running. and I don't have to rush the bottle heating.

I need to buy fuel at the track and have the tank sealed for the class. I can change fuel but since I tuned with pump gas I can just run the same type with and without the nitrous. I don't want to add a lot of Octane. It was perfect on the dyno with 93. I could go to 98 but over 100 will reduce power. I don't want Oxygen either because I did not tune with it.
I was thinking VP C10
VP fuel is the track vendor these are my choices.
http://ecta-lsr.net/?page_id=950
Sounds good to me - VPR would be a reasonable alternative.

For the nitrous bottle pressure I have a plan.
I have a BIG bottle heater on my FILL bottle. This is my plan. tell me if it is OK. I will heat the BIG bottle to 1000 PSI.
Make that 1,100

keep the little bottles cold.
AVOID cooling them and keep them moderately warm, they shouldn't need to be cooled to fill easily when the main bottle is heated and has a higher pressure than required. Cooling the bottle will cause the nitrous pressure to drop after filling.

Then fill the small cold bottles with 1000 PSI 1.5 lb of nitrous.
You may not see quite that pressure but the weight is what matters.

Then when I get to the starting line the bottles will still be at a high pressure.
Using my method that is more likely to be the case.

I will not have to do much to heat them to 950 psi.
I wouldn't assume that as a number of factors may affect that, so be prepared to 'top them up'.

If they heat up to much in the sun they will just vent a little.
Correct.

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!

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