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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:58 pm 
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shipped on the 18th. I guess we better check on it,


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Racer X wrote:
shipped on the 18th. I guess we better check on it,


Should have got there in just THREE days, unless it was sent by normal airmail, so I'll have that checked out tomorrow for you Eric.

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:53 pm 
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OK the second bottle heater arrived today. The two heaters together draw 15.78 amps. I have a 40 amp relay and a 30 amp fuse. Nice and over built. Just the way I like it.

So that is it. Three weeks from now I will have run it for all it's worth. I don't know all the changes I have made since my last run. But it was all small improvements. Then testing and tuning and learning new things. The next runs will be very interesting. Since I have so much data collected already. It will be fun to see how the real world matches up to the testing guessing and hope.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:04 am 
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Small changes are exactly the way to do it, as they often add up to a big improvement.

Best of luck for the event.

I wonder why the heater took so long but glad it made it at last. :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:12 am 
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The biggest change from the last run is that everything is adjusted. Before it was all put together and I did a couple test runs. Now it is ready to go. And it is just the start of a long season

I have three engines all very different. But all running on WON.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:05 am 
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Just back from Ohio.
I did not have a great meet. The weather was a factor. Headwind and cold Saturday and rain Sunday. I managed to set two records. First an all motor record at 104 mph . I held fifth gear for a long time. About a half a mile. I felt the power drop so I shifted to sixth but it lost speed in the last 1/4 mile.

After that run the right side was not holding exhaust heat at idle. I melted the tip off the edge of the ground electrode. Just a little. During the run.The exhaust temp was at 1350. A little hot I think.

I made the next pass with nitrous. I got the bottle to 950 psi with no problem. No leaking hoses. I filled the tank to the top. And the run started well. The bike pulls harder in second than ever before.. I sprayed fifth gear then sixth at the 1/2 mile. At the 3/4 mile I hit 112 and it suddenly nosed over. I shut it down completely and drifted through at 106.

I am not sure what happen yet but I suspect I burned a valve on the first run the made it worse with the nitrous.
I will pull it apart tomorrow. I can't wait to see what happen.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:55 am 
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Such a shame and yes if you damaged a plug on the NA run you more than likely also damaged a valve and/or a piston, which would have got worse while using nitrous. :cry:

The problem with using a dyno to set up mixture, is that it doesn't accurately represent the load the bike experiences in REAL use, so you always NEED to richen up whatever settings are optimum on the dyno by a couple of notches, to be sure you are starting from a safe setting in REAL use.

If you hadn't had decent success before this event I'd have mentioned that before you ran but you appeared to have it all in hand up to this point.

Having a strong headwind would have increased the load on the engine (making it work harder and need more fuel), so that was probably what tipped it over the edge.

All things considered it sounds like you did very well to achieve anything, so TWO records is a good result under those conditions.

When are you racing again?

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:05 am 
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You are correct on all acounts. I spent more time on the nitrous than the n/a tuning. But I always go rich. Plugs even looked good. But the cold air and headwind had me holding the fifth gear waiting for a speed number to appear on the dash. I should have shifted sooner.

Maybe higher octane fuel would have helped.

The nitrous was definitely not the problem.

I am having shoulder surgery Thursday. Next race is in June. Then July I am not sure if I will make it. But I bought five gallons of gas. I will be at the 1/4 mile track ASAP.
Bonnevile is in August. So the next real test will be September.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:15 am 
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Best of luck with the surgery, what is that for exactly?

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:17 am 
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Torn rotator cuff. Stupid pain and I can't reach streight out. Even if I try. Getting old sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:03 am 
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Ah yes I remember you mentioning it before now, so best of luck with that.

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:08 am 
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BTW it seems we had another WON customer there (who was only running a WON front end upgrade set up), who managed to run 2 mph quicker than ever before, despite using HALF the nitrous jet size he used with the full NOS set up and only managing to get it to activate (due to gear link problems) from the top of 4th instead of the bottom of 3rd.

He's now switching to a FULL WON system. :yes:

BTW he also ran his bike on the dyno (a Busa) before the event and recorded a 105 HP increase from JUST 70 HP jets. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:09 am 
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I have given it some thought. I think I opened up the gap on the plug with the first pass. Then the nitrous pass might have just taken the spark out. I have 165 psi on the bad cylinder and close to 200 on the left.

I am pulling it down now. I want to see how it looks after six land speed records and over 60 nitrous pulls on the dyno.

I am going to spend the next three months healing the stupid shoulder . And drag racing the 1/4 mile track.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:10 am 
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Was that Ransom?


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:09 am 
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Just got the engine down. NO damage. Clutch is perfect. Pistons are dark on top and look perfect otherwise.
I think I just went rich and jumped out just in time. Just freshen up the head and I am back in business. I need to get data logging with dual AF any suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:46 am 
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Racer X wrote:
I have given it some thought. I think I opened up the gap on the plug with the first pass. Then the nitrous pass might have just taken the spark out.
VERY likely

I have 165 psi on the bad cylinder and close to 200 on the left.
That could be some molten plug residue on the exhaust seat/s so I'd pull those valves out and redo the grind.

I am pulling it down now. I want to see how it looks after six land speed records and over 60 nitrous pulls on the dyno.
It'll look PERFECT.

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:49 am 
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Racer X wrote:
Was that Ransom?


Yes - I mentioned you were there after making the post here and he said he'd had a quick word with you at the event.

He didn't mention the head wind (it wouldn't have affected him as much as you) but that will have knocked a few MPH off his speed, so the achievement is even bigger. :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:53 am 
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Racer X wrote:
Just got the engine down. NO damage. Clutch is perfect. Pistons are dark on top and look perfect otherwise.
:twisted: EXCELLENT :twisted:

I think I just went rich and jumped out just in time.
That is possible (although getting out of it at any time wouldn't have mattered as running too rich wouldn't do any harm) but it's also very likely that the spark started to give up, as that would give the same end result, including the dark piston crowns.

Just freshen up the head and I am back in business.
Especially those exhaust valves/seats.

I need to get data logging with dual AF any suggestions?
Only running 2 full units.

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:26 am 
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Just an update
I had my shoulder operated on. Really hurts. They gave me drugs. But I can't think streight as it is. So no more of that.

I got my cylinder head assembled. And the valves are adjusted. I tried to put the cylinder bore back on the pistons. It ain't happening with one arm. So here I sit. Typing on the web.

It's not bad now . But in June when all my friends go racing. O boy I am not looking forward to that.


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Glad to hear you've been fixed but sorry for your pain, however I'm sure that will go soon and you'll be out with your buddies again enjoying the racing. :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:49 pm 
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I got the engine running again. The bottom end was fine, And even the clutch was good. The head was a little tired. Plus I just get finished porting and polishing a new head . BUT get this!! I put two intake cams in the engine. Replacing the exhaust cam with an intake came gives me 1mm more lift on the exhaust valves, :bounce:

Listen to this.. http://youtu.be/ff9aggwoDAE


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 6:56 pm 
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was that something you heard about or just thought you'd try? sounds ripsnortingly good.

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Kinda a forum discovery. Some one bought aftermarket cams. The company that makes the cams only makes one cam and uses it for both sides. I knew the intake had more lift. But I never thought about it. Then someone put two and two together. Aparantley it is a hot ticket for the older SV 650. I believe I am the first to do it on a 250 ninja.

The sound is awsome. My fear is it will go flat. It should not but that is my fear. When engines have good bottom end then the top is no good. I will be on the dyno June 22


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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Racer X wrote:
I got the engine running again.
Excellent news

The bottom end was fine, And even the clutch was good.
Even better news but just as I'd expect.

The head was a little tired.
In what way?

Plus I just get finished porting and polishing a new head . BUT get this!! I put two intake cams in the engine. Replacing the exhaust cam with an intake came gives me 1mm more lift on the exhaust valves, :bounce:
That's a practice we've used for decades and well worth doing.

Listen to this.. http://youtu.be/ff9aggwoDAE
Sweet. :yes: :yes:

BTW I have some young gun enthusiasts rebuilding my BSA B25 for me, so we hope to see that hit the track before the end of the year and see how much improvement we can make to it now that I ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT I'M DOING or at least I now 'THINK' I DO, as back then I KNEW I DIDN'T!!!! :rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: 250 Ninja
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 8:17 pm 
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The head was tired because I leaned out to much running all motor and the melted plug bits left a ruff finish on #2 exhaust valves. Dropping compression from 200 down to 160psi.

I look forward to your progress.


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