NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

I recently purchased your won pulsoid solenoids for my ex top gas 1500 gs Suzuki...123 auto...150 hp jets...30/32...

Started off at a 40% start..80% finish...all in 4 seconds....13* timing out...8 psi fuel..(C123octane)

First pass..8:30ish...track not sticky..tire breaking and rolling...two promods wiped out at the top end of the track located in Toronto Motosports part..Cayuga

Second pass..7.99@168 was set at 90% and 3 seconds to in...timing down to 11*...fuel pressure@ 7psi...plugs and wego good

Third pass 7:76@ 158mph..only change fuel pressure to 6 1/2 psi....Traction was excellent as it was Sunday and weather was heating up the track.



I would like your opinion on the plugs and my wego readings to verify my own opinion. I use the regular plugs to dial in my stripe and fuel colour then changed to the double electrode style.I have never seen the plugs look this good before as I always seem to run better when they look lean...even though the wege o2 readings were dipping into the 10's and ll area. Now the reading seem to be more consistent..I did install a holley blue with a regulator as before it was just the 6 psi nitrous pump. Now fuel pressure way nicer to adjust with:) Pulsoids Rock:)

I couldn't get the wego readings downloaded to email...not that computer literate..lol
The readings didn't have the high lean spikes like with the previous solenoids which did make good power as well at 100 hp - best was 7:62@168mph

First run average was around 12.6-13.2 average...regular plugs...8psi fuel

Second run average was around 13-13.5 ..regular plugs...7 psi fuel

Third run was average was 13.2-14.. Dual electrode plugs

The o2 readings are always hard to define the areas as no rpm is hooked up , no race pack, just basic progressive controller..top gas...and wego and checking plugs , find it is better to look at the average. We have a cut off of 7:50 sec for this class and we want to run safely around the bump. No one else runs Nos in the bike PBSS NHRA division we are in. The others never know how fast we are going to run for qualifying...usually one of the fastest in the field except this weekend when we were just tuning. Now there is 3 other bikes running in the 7's... all NA
Just looking for another opinion to run safe on our budget. Do you think I am tuning properly? What else should I be looking at?

I do appreciate any help and direction

Oh I might mention that Paul Gast... well known bike builder ..good guy. was down at our event and qualified 3rd with their NA bike..we were fourth at 7:99 as we were tuning and no traction. A fellow racer asked when we were going to turn to nitrous on with our 8:30 1st run. On the second when it was breaking traction at 7:99 he changed his attitude and said how fast the bike would be if we would have had some traction:) which would now be more tuneable for track conditions

GoFasterRacing

Trevor beat me to it!!
Those plugs have way too much metal in the chamber.

Not sure on your plug size, but I use NGK B8ECS and B9ECS in my car.

I am bringing the timing all in 1 second, I'd rather be sure the timing is in early. I am not sure if I ramp the timing in the same as the nitrous delay that they would be safe to delay the full timing retard needed? I like being fast...but safe is going to get me through the race season if nothing goes wrong with my motor. How much actual benefit would it be to ramp the timing in the same as the nitrous delay?
Plugs are NGK JR9C for the dual electrode and just the 9 series for the regular...don't have the plugs for reference ...heat range is 9.
Not sure what you are saying about cutting my gound straps sholrter on the plugs? Please explain it. I will switch back to regular ground strap style plugs.
I will play around with my timing... what is your thought on our number? ..11* seems pretty good so far with the fuel pressure we run but I will optimize once we have the tune set up correctly. The faster we can get it all in..the better for et. as long as the chassis and track hold. Pretty certain we will be able to dial in a 7:50ish tune safely with out pushing everything to the edge. Next is to just ride the bike and hit good lights.....lol
There is pictures of the set up. Not sure how to post video of the bike racing?
Next PBSS race is at the end of June, so I will post results then or before if we go to a couple of other events
The pictures show the holley blue fuel pump, regulator, gauge, pressure shut off, fuel bleed line for adusting pressure regulator, bottle heater and pressure transducer, 3/8 fuel line to solenoid
The motor is approx. 14:1 compression, stock GS head reworked off of an old Pro mod bike that was in the 6 second zone. Leaves the line at 9500 rpm, shifts at 11,000 rpm

to the op..

in my personal experiance, you are able to get away with quite a bit more timing..

im not sure the Actual reason at the level of physics, but i have over the years developed a theory..

that it has to do with the fuel nitrous mix in the chamber. not only does WON deliver a more consistent flow/volume from cylinder to cylinder, but when using all won components you also get a much more evenly dispersed nitrous/fuel mixture.

when you dont have good mixture you get spikes or rapid explosions. Im not talking about detonation at this point, just an unstable burn. think about it like this..you have a hot, smoldering fire and you pour some gas on it.. nothing happens for a second. Then all of a sudden the fuel reaches the flash point then you get a large flare up all at one time..

where as, if you mist a fine gasoline film over a already burning fire you get a much more controlled and "cleaner" burn.. which would you rather have inside your engine. now you have to correlate nitrous to gasoline in this example but its basically the same thing.

with normal nitrous kits, all you see is the heat marks on the ground straps, so you think the cylinder is to hot, or its firing to early, you dial in the timing and you end up at 11 degrees.. it runs good, makes better power basically all you did was mask a problem. you didnt leave any one the table, because very simply your basic nitrous kit is not able to produce any more. (optimally) then the problem only gets worse at larger and larger nitrous levels, so you pull out more and more timing, until you detonate and blow the engine.

with the won kit.. you get the more fine contolled "mist" on top of your fire. it burns smoother, there is less pressure spike, more torque, and far less heat. (unfortunately you do end up with alot more exhaust, but that's a good thing)
so now you have the ability to turn the timing back down, or add more nitrous

this very simple reason in the last paragraph is why you see many people FAR exceeding the "normal" amounts of nitrous used. for example, on my own bike every one swears that 68 is all it will handle.. go up a jet size (nx kit) and they will blow the rods... well i ran WON for 3 years at anywhere from 40-140 hp.. most of the time in the 120 range. STOCK rods. i never EVER hurt a single part. the only thing i had done special was valve seats.

Exactly right JC and there is another contributory factor to all that, which is the density of the nitrous that reaches the engine.
US kits cause the nitrous to lose a lot of density on the way to the inlet system and as a consequence they don't cool the NA charge as much and they displace more air than a WON system does. Using the more efficient WON system means you have more NITROGEN in the cylinder, which as all smart guys know is the reason we can make ANY power at all (even NA), without immediately killing the engine, as would be the case if our atmosphere was pure oxygen.

The sooner people appreciate that WON is the ONLY company inventing, designing and manufacturing nitrous components that are FIT FOR PURPOSE, the sooner they all ENJOY the benefits of nitrous, rather than SUFFER the consequences of BAD nitrous components.

trevor didnt you do some experimenting with adding more nitrogen to the mix? for more buffer.

i bet with the ssis you wil probably need to do that. as the nitrogen % will be so low compared to a normal or forced induction mix.

I think there may be a bit of confusion over retarded timing here....
What i think the guy is saying is that he is dropping 13-11 degrees timing for the launch, then ramping in to full advance over 1 second before retarding for nitrous.
Lots of racers drop timing on the launch to get a more progressive launch... a primitive traction control if ya like, then bringing in retard as the motor needs it for the gas.

I also think he was worried that if he ramped the timing back in to match the nitrous then it wouldnt activate retard mode in time??

Sounds like he's running a schnitz pro series II ignition/nitrous controller or similar

Steve