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quick querie on injection venom placements
http://nitrous-advice.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7209		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Bigbike-r [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  quick querie on injection venom placements
Hi, Ive a gsf1200 engine. ive already mounted my fuel venoms in the intake boots infront of the carbs, i will not be using a bank of 4 carbs but instead a single SU carb mounted on a custom intake manifold.

ratherthan drill 4 more holes for the nitros venoms, or buying the cross fire venoms, can i fit the single nitrous venom in the path of the carb

this will cary the nitrous down the intake manifold with the carb mixture and then be mixed with the fuel venoms the same
am i making sense??
Author:  Noswizard [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
Bigbike-r wrote:
Hi, Ive a gsf1200 engine. ive already mounted my fuel venoms in the intake boots infront of the carbs, i will not be using a bank of 4 carbs but instead a single SU carb mounted on a custom intake manifold.

ratherthan drill 4 more holes for the nitros venoms, or buying the cross fire venoms, can i fit the single nitrous venom in the path of the carb

this will cary the nitrous down the intake manifold with the carb mixture and then be mixed with the fuel venoms the same
am i making sense??

You'd be better to add the 4 nitrous Venoms at the side of the fuel Venoms or replace ALL the Venoms with Crossfires
Author:  Bigbike-r [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
so it would not work with the one venom? as my thinking was the nitrous would still be evenly distributed after entering the manifold.
i also thought about using one venom from the fuel, so that i had 1 fuel and 1 nitrous venom just after the carb
Author:  Noswizard [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
Bigbike-r wrote:
so it would not work with the one venom? as my thinking was the nitrous would still be evenly distributed after entering the manifold.
i also thought about using one venom from the fuel, so that i had 1 fuel and 1 nitrous venom just after the carb

Venoms like ALL US nozzles have a VERY NARROW discharge plume, which is not conducive to dispersing evenly amongst a number of cylinders, which is why I invented/created the Crossfire injector, because it needed a 'special' design to achieve that.

You can see the difference between the plume shapes here;
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=689
Author:  Bigbike-r [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
my manifold will be different to the one in the diagram, this diagram shows how it would be set up
the inlet is in the centre rather than off to one side, should give a more even distribution
the firing order is 1&3 2&4 ... as your'e never delivering to all 4 cylinders at one time i thought that should give a more equal delivery, once the fuel and air from the carb enters, and the nitrous is sprayed into the mix, will that not aid in its distribution to the cylinders

im still learning here so excuse the questions if they seem a bit daft

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Author:  Bigbike-r [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
as you only have 2 cylinders been delivered to alternating between 1&4 2&3 this is how i imagined it would deliver, and then obv same but to the other two cylinders on the next stroke or am i way off?

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intake.jpg
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Author:  Noswizard [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
Such a manifold arrangement would certainly improve things and you are correct that only one cylinder is active at any one time but you are still at the mercy of the manifold and the forces acting within it to achieve even distribution.
Adding nitrous at the carb will create all sorts of changes to the flow characteristics of the manifold, which is already subject to unpredictable (without serious analytical facilities) forces due to normal induction principles.

The LAST thing I would do is use a single nitrous nozzle and 4 fuel nozzles. I'd either use a single combined nozzle/injector (Crossfire) at the carb or 4 pairs of Venom's at the head end.
Author:  Bigbike-r [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
so in short - 4 crossfires at the intake boots, or ditch the fuel venoms and place 1 crossfire at the carb.

thanks for the info and taking the time to reply/explain :)
Author:  Noswizard [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
Bigbike-r wrote:
so in short - 4 crossfires at the intake boots, or ditch the fuel venoms and place 1 crossfire at the carb.

thanks for the info and taking the time to reply/explain :)

Not quite, you can stick with the Venom's but have 4 of each.
Author:  xclr82xtc [ Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
if trevor would get us an interface, you could just get rid of that carb and use a revo for the fuel! :) get on it trevor!!

ive NEVER had much luck on carbed bikes with nitrous. I know it can be done (obvisously) but usually i spray so much nitrous that it either stalls the airflow slightly (causing fuel issues) or the weather changes made fueling to aggravating to deal with all together. .. so.. for me.. fuel injection it is.

anyways.. back to the point... have you thought about maybe fabricating some kind of plate to put behind the carb for nitrous, then the 4 atomizers for the fuel up front. im thinking something like the vortex plate like trevor just did for the busa.


take a look at this video.. (ignore the technical crap.) you can get a little bit better idea how the nitrous will actually flow by looking at it.. notice the flow to each cylinder never really stops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ecq8MNfk0
Author:  Noswizard [ Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
Wish I had that package and someone who could use it to generate simulations of nitrous flow, as I'm sure that would be EXTREMELY BENEFICIAL to my understanding of the effects of nitrous. :yes:
Author:  xclr82xtc [ Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: quick querie on injection venom placements
its not hard.. sofware package will run you about 30 grand. 100 if you want to go with something top of the line. i think though your looking for something that can also simluate the phase changes of nitrous along with flows.. for that you need the real deal software, and its pricey.

http://www.ricardo.com/en-GB/What-we-do ... ucts/WAVE/

http://www.ansys.com/
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