NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Hello
i am not new to nitrous . Made some installs on EFI bikes ,and all were dry.
So ,i have no problems on electric or manual work and so on.
BUT all these bikes are fuel-tuned by the injectors.
i myself have a gen1 hayabusa and it runs fine since two years and since i swapped to Pulsoids and WON stuff.
sprayed many bottles through without any issues.(80 jet)
First i got lean at topend , but swapped the intank to a Bosch fuel pump (also intank ,nearly 1:1 to do on the busa). highly recomended for Gen1 Busa in my opinion if you come near 200rwp ,and no great job.

ok ,finish with the intro
i buildet a old SRAD for my wife.........and now.....she wants more for next season.
For start 25hp shot. (old engine with no mods and 25 should come smoth)

Here we go:
Fueltank will be swapped to a ~3l fuel cell and just a gfk cover to save weigt.
Carbs will no longer need the original fuel pump and be gravity feeded.

To try something new i will not fog the airbox or use venoms ,but use discharge tubes and the 4way splitter block.
I know for 25hp not usual or needed but want to build it to make some experiences with the tubes. (plans for busa )

How to feed the fuel best to it.
4 venoms in the intakes after the carbs should do it with a short way for fuel from pulsoid to venoms.

should i go with a high pressure fuel pump with regulator ?(have some stuff already available)
I think Higher pressure (2-3 bar) will disturb the fuel better as the usual low pressure pumps (0,3bar)
also with return line i will have the fuel at once at the pulsoid ,and never have "bubbles" in the lines.

Could i...and how...."blow" the fuel also through the carbs or is this bad ?

Not to many questions at a time


I want to build ....and try ,even if it could be simple .

greets from germany
and here she is

if just 25bhp shot then why not gravity feed fuel? lots less to go wrong.

get up to 75bhp on gravity fed fuel.

i'm running 50 shot on bandit 1200 gravity fed no problems at all.

Thanks for reply

Do you have a pics from your install ?
Would help me to see if my ideas match running systems

I cant imagine how "gravity-fuel" will be as quick as the gas to the inlets.
The small engine is reving up to 13.400 and i think it will lean out at the first moment .
As i mentioned there will be a small fuel cell in it and only some liters , so the "weigt-pressure" of the fuel will also not be high , as the cell is flat lying on airbox.

Our systems reduce the lean effect of the nitrous reaching the engine before the fuel (assuming you use ALL our components) and being such a small amount of nitrous that shouldn't be a problem.
Whatever the case, the best way to optimise the fuel and nitrous reaching the engine at the same time is to fractionally delay the activation of the nitrous Pulsoid relative to the fuel Pulsoid, as the Max Extreme has the ability to do.

Thanks

I know for 25hp not usual or needed but want to build it to make some experiences with the tubes. (plans for busa )
It's a different situation using Discharge Tubes on a carb engine to an injected engine.
I thinked about this. Dont like carbs no more since i ride on EFI bikes

Crossfires would be nice ,but would be close to the valves.

Of course i will use only WON , but didnt want to put a controller to this small shot.

Next week i ll take the tank of and post some pics. There will be much room for install ,when using just a fuel cell.

greets
Bernie

i did a build thread on here

http://forum.nitrous-advice.org/viewtop ... =12&t=5936

some pictures there and here too...
http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/bugsy ... N%20bandit

seems weird doesn't it but imagine this...

if a loaded rifle is placed perfectly horizontal and a fired and at the exact same time a bullet is dropped from the same height as the muzzle. the bullets hit the ground at the same time.

but i just made my nitrous lines twice as long as the fuel ones.

Wise move as the analogy you've used doesn't quite work/apply Neil.

Although they may reach the ground at the same time, they certainly would NOT have travelled the same distance from the start point and that's the factor we're concerned with here.
So to use your gun/bullet analogy in a more correct/applicable manner it would be more like this;
Although a bullet THROWN from the same point as a bullet that is fired from a gun will reach the ground at the same time, the THROWN bullet will only have travelled a few feet from the start point, compared to the hundreds of feet travelled by the bullet fired by the gun, in the same time.

Thanks for all your hints and advice Neil and Trev
by the way ,B-12 comes from my 97 Bandit

SRAD is still complete as i wait for two balances iv ordered. Want to weight it before start. There will also be some
weight reducing mods done.
Dont even know the excat weight at the moment ,but should be around 180kg

Back to nitrous:
Thought all about that ,and as i had enough trouble to get the carbs running right...........
i quit the idea for discharge tubes.

If i feed it gravity ,
i think on the nitous side i would go the easy and approved way and just fog the airbox by the ramairs.
Would give fuel the needed advance. And ,the hit would be smooth.

Do it this way on my Busa . But my fuel on the Busa is much quicker then nitrous ,as it comes immediatly from raising the injectors.

Bernie

Just for smalltalk
Here she is on the Bandit. Its only used as road bike ,
After a try at the track in Hockenheim we swapped to SRAD ,as the Bandit is to short and will only flip with her

Here the pictures . If i place the fuellcell on back of airbox ,its exit will be about 2" higher than inlet of carbs.
If i place the pulsoid on bottom of fuelcell i will have about 2" to the rubbers.
Will i get a even distribution in the inlets if i am so close to the valves ?

Could ether place a venom or crossfires in the inlet rubbers.

[quote="B-12"]Here the pictures . If i place the fuellcell on back of airbox ,its exit will be about 2" higher than inlet of carbs.
If i place the pulsoid on bottom of fuelcell i will have about 2" to the rubbers.
Will i get a even distribution in the inlets if i am so close to the valves ?
Yes that should be possible as long as you use the right components and plumb it correctly.

Could ether place a venom or crossfires in the inlet rubbers.
Yes but you'd be better just to locate the fuel Venom's there and locate nitrous Venom/s in the intake to the airbox and the NA to nitrous transition will be much smoother that way.

i got aware that the term "fuelcell" means something different than that what i wanted to say.
sorry for my leak of terms ...and "inventing" new ones

I will build/weld a small aluminium fuel tank with a volume of 2-3 liters.
As its not yet made i can place the outlets were i want.

1. For gravity feed i asume its better to keep the lines from pulsoid outlet to the venoms as short as possible

2. Can i place/direct the fuel venoms in different angles ? (the venoms on cylinder 1+4 would "aim" a bit to center)
view from top like a watch > cylinder 1 to 4 o clock ; 2+3 straight to 6 ; and 4 to 8 o clock
this would avoid a bit bending of lines to keep them at equal lenght and keep them shorter.

3. What would you use ? D-block ; Showerhead , or 3 Y-pieces ? (can all be plumbed direct to pulsoid and exactly horizontal

sorry for all the questions , but why not doing it first time the best way ,and use your experience

EFI keeps things much easier

Hi
here as i could arange it.
"Pulsoid" is attached wrong in the pic , it will be vertical and a direct fit to the tank with 6-AN fitting.
There will also be a small fuel "pocket" were the pulsoid is fitted , to assure to get always fuel even when it swaps in the maintank.

The D-Block can be also be direct fitted to ipulsoid. Showerhead would aim to much down ,and i would lose some hight for flow.

From D-Block to venoms i use 4mm SS tubes. (DHRA-tech would like them better than hose) and the tubes would hold their shape if once bended.
I have 4x0,6 + 4x0,8 + 4x1 tubes.
Which inner diameter should i use ?
Will the 2" in heigt be ok for gravity ? The brush is fitted at the real hight of inlets !!

Trev
I will mail you a orderlist with al items i need

Fantastic Pic's!!!!




I take it the Jet Fighter lost in the Drag Race

Of cause he did

[quote="B-12"] "Pulsoid" is attached wrong in the pic , it will be vertical and a direct fit to the tank with 6-AN fitting.
There will also be a small fuel "pocket" were the pulsoid is fitted , to assure to get always fuel even when it swaps in the maintank.
I think I understand that and it should be OK.

The D-Block can be also be direct fitted to ipulsoid.
Can you show me exactly how you intend to do that, just to be sure? It's always better to use a tube/fittings between those 2 components, as it makes it much easier to access and change jets.

Showerhead would aim to much down ,and i would lose some hight for flow.
I'm not sure what you mean by that, are you saying you don't intend to use a showerhead for that reason?

From D-Block to venoms i use 4mm SS tubes. (DHRA-tech would like them better than hose) and the tubes would hold their shape if once bended.
You don't need the tube to hold it's shape in that location and you'd be much better using nylon pipe instead.

I have 4x0,6 + 4x0,8 + 4x1 tubes.
Which inner diameter should i use ?
Assuming this is just for modest power increases, you'd be best to use the smallest bore pipe but again you'd be better using nylon instead of stainless tube.

Will the 2" in heigt be ok for gravity ? The brush is fitted at the real hight of inlets !!
ANY height is adequate for gravity and it's measured from the TOP of the fuel level. Ideally you want a SHALLOW fuel tank to achieve a constant fuel height.

Trev
I will mail you a orderlist with al items i need
I'll watch out for it.

Ok
i make the tank as high as possible.

and
try the showerhead
If the pulsoid is vertical with outlet downwards and the showerhead below also aiming downwards i could lose to much height i thaught ,
but it could match after i checked again ,so i ll try.

The wizard got mail

greets
Bernie

It doesn't matter how low the components go, as the fuel will just flow back up again and the end result will be the same.

Plan for setup is complete now and order just placed.

Thanks for advice ,and il keep posting pics from the install.

One last question so far concerning fuel lines.

I read in the insalation manuals it would be better to let the lines rise from any "splitter" to venoms in the inlets , and understand its better "pushing" the fuel up
then let it "drip" downwards. I think the main difference is that upwards the lines couldnt have "air bubbles" as the exit is higher and they cant run empty.
But wouldnt vac in the inlets not also "suck" them dry.?

Downwards lines at all would be shorter.

Is it a major difference ??


Thanks

Some time ago all my stuff arrived from WON.
and one more B-King will run on WON too.

Its going on ,but a bit slow , as dayli job is killing me
fuelcell in work and today i got the filling cap and weld on fittings. So it can soon be welded.

Now as i restudy all the instructions i found two different numbers to calculate the jets.
In the Streetblaster 50 wet instructions can be read : http://www.noswizard.com/pdf/SB75%20UK% ... Manual.pdf see bottom of page 11
Nos to fuel > 1:2 for gravity feed
So a 30 shot would be : 60 jet N2O and a 120 jet for fuel.

In the instruction: Metering jet installation http://www.noswizard.com/pdf/Jet%20changing.pdf see page 2
there is a rato of 1:6 ????? Would be 6o N2o and 360 for fuel ??

So ,if i start with a 60 N2O jet for 30Hp

What is the right fuel jet size for gravity feed ?
Setup is showerhead with 4 fuel venoms in the inlets behind carbs and one or two venoms to fog the airbox.

Why not use a paper filter (oem suzuki) to fog throu ? i ve read this in another post.
On the Busa i use a K&N but the carbed SRAD runs better on OEM.

greets
Bernie