NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum :: View topic - Another Bandit on gas

Hi folks, I`m based in Nottingham UK and this is my first post.
Welcome to my forum Kickstart.

I`m hoping to use the gas for the first time soon, and have jetted the system for 60hp - so according to some posts I might not need to worry about the timing just yet.

As soon as the system is all tested and working fine, I`ll be up-jetting to @ 120hp ish and I want the engine to last as long as possible so........... with the Dyna 2000 kit (which I fitted YEARS ago), I have the stator plate set to 40`, I also had the advance/retard knob set to 5` advance (pre nitrous install).

The nitrous system was initially installed by a WON dealer, who actually set the dyna knob to 8 degrees retard and the orange wire (I`m sure it was orange?) was also connected - which is supposed to automatically retard the ignition a further 8` when activated I believe.

The quandry is,
1) Do I leave it like this?
Although the advice above is safe and correct in the absence of my 35 years of experience, you certainly should NOT leave the timing set to retard that much, as it will neutralise the majority of the potential increase, turning a 60 HP gain into nearer to a 10 HP gain.

2) Do I set the knob back to 5` advance (cos it rides better) and rely on the orange wire to do the job?
3) Set the knob to a more neutral 1` advance and rely on the orange wire?
What you need to do is set the timing to the STOCK setting as those motors can easily handle 60 HP of nitrous WITHOUT ANY retard. If you want to play super safe you can retard it by whatever amount you are happy with but NONE IS NEEDED.
As a rule of thumb for your bike you are good with STOCK timing up to 50 HP and then retard by 2 degrees for every extra 25 HP above that and even that should be safe.
Regardless of all the above info, as in the previous post, the ONLY correct and accurate way to determine what timing the engine likes best, is to read the plugs after an IMMEDIATE SHUT DOWN of the engine after a full power run.

I`d really like to understand the system before it gets used in anger !!!
Wise man and you might like to consider purchasing a copy of my book, to enable you to do a better job of that;
http://www.noswizard.com/nitrous-ancill ... k-604.html

Many thanks for your time reading this, and thanks in advance for any replies

My pleasure

Mark

Author:	kickstart [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:57 am ]
Post subject:	Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
Hi folks, I`m based in Nottingham UK and this is my first post. I`ve read as many threads on Bandits as my eyes can take, but I can`t find a solid answer to my timing questions. I have a K3 Bandit for street/strip, 1216, 360` cams, 38mm flatties etc etc with WON pulseoids, venoms, holley pump, twin bottles, an old schnitz controller and a Dyna 2000 ignition - I`m sure you guys get the idea. I`m hoping to use the gas for the first time soon, and have jetted the system for 60hp - so according to some posts I might not need to worry about the timing just yet. As soon as the system is all tested and working fine, I`ll be up-jetting to @ 120hp ish and I want the engine to last as long as possible so........... with the Dyna 2000 kit (which I fitted YEARS ago), I have the stator plate set to 40`, I also had the advance/retard knob set to 5` advance (pre nitrous install). The nitrous system was initially installed by a WON dealer, who actually set the dyna knob to 8 degrees retard and the orange wire (I`m sure it was orange?) was also connected - which is supposed to automatically retard the ignition a further 8` when activated I believe. The quandry is, 1) Do I leave it like this? 2) Do I set the knob back to 5` advance (cos it rides better) and rely on the orange wire to do the job? 3) Set the knob to a more neutral 1` advance and rely on the orange wire? I`d really like to understand the system before it gets used in anger !!! Many thanks for your time reading this, and thanks in advance for any replies Mark

Author:	Turbobox [ Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
Congrats on your build, it sounds like a fun ride! In regard to your question, I'm sure the dealer set the timing back that far for the extra margin of safety, but the only way to know how far to set the timing is to make a nitrous pull and check your spark plugs to see where the timing mark is. Then slowly advance the timing a degree at a time and repeat the procedure. I suggest a dyno or strip session to do this. In the mean time, leave the knob as is; it's better to err on the side of safety.

Author:	Noswizard [ Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
kickstart wrote: Hi folks, I`m based in Nottingham UK and this is my first post. Welcome to my forum Kickstart. I`m hoping to use the gas for the first time soon, and have jetted the system for 60hp - so according to some posts I might not need to worry about the timing just yet. As soon as the system is all tested and working fine, I`ll be up-jetting to @ 120hp ish and I want the engine to last as long as possible so........... with the Dyna 2000 kit (which I fitted YEARS ago), I have the stator plate set to 40`, I also had the advance/retard knob set to 5` advance (pre nitrous install). The nitrous system was initially installed by a WON dealer, who actually set the dyna knob to 8 degrees retard and the orange wire (I`m sure it was orange?) was also connected - which is supposed to automatically retard the ignition a further 8` when activated I believe. The quandry is, 1) Do I leave it like this? Although the advice above is safe and correct in the absence of my 35 years of experience, you certainly should NOT leave the timing set to retard that much, as it will neutralise the majority of the potential increase, turning a 60 HP gain into nearer to a 10 HP gain. 2) Do I set the knob back to 5` advance (cos it rides better) and rely on the orange wire to do the job? 3) Set the knob to a more neutral 1` advance and rely on the orange wire? What you need to do is set the timing to the STOCK setting as those motors can easily handle 60 HP of nitrous WITHOUT ANY retard. If you want to play super safe you can retard it by whatever amount you are happy with but NONE IS NEEDED. As a rule of thumb for your bike you are good with STOCK timing up to 50 HP and then retard by 2 degrees for every extra 25 HP above that and even that should be safe. Regardless of all the above info, as in the previous post, the ONLY correct and accurate way to determine what timing the engine likes best, is to read the plugs after an IMMEDIATE SHUT DOWN of the engine after a full power run. I`d really like to understand the system before it gets used in anger !!! Wise man and you might like to consider purchasing a copy of my book, to enable you to do a better job of that; http://www.noswizard.com/nitrous-ancill ... k-604.html Many thanks for your time reading this, and thanks in advance for any replies My pleasure Mark

Author:	Turbobox [ Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
Heed the word of The Wizard he knows what's best for your ride, Kickstart!

Author:	kickstart [ Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
Thank you so much for the replies, it really is appreciated, it`s great to have such a wealth of knowledge and experience to tap into ! Proper testing will begin once the new Mikuni`s are set up properly, I can`t wait ! Trev, I see that you`re based in Doncaster - I`m really struggling to get gas in Notts, so I might have to pop up sometime soon for a fill and a copy of your manual Thanks again, no doubt I`ll need more guidance soon Mark

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Author:	Turbobox [ Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
You're welcome! I really need to find time to learn to ride a motorcycle... I feel like I'm missing out on so much fun!

Author:	Noswizard [ Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
We're open for gas fills Monday to Thursday to 6pm or 6:30 if you phone and let us know you are on your way. It's also wise to call anyway to check we have gas in stock, as we occasionally get caught short. We're only a couple of minutes from the M18 motorway, so either using the A1 or the M1 should get you hear in approx. an hour. Wise move to buy a copy of my book and as we only have a few left, now is the time to do that.

Author:	kickstart [ Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
Turbobox wrote: I really need to find time to learn to ride a motorcycle... I feel like I'm missing out on so much fun! There`s nothing else like it Thanks Trev, I`ll try and come along one afternoon in a week or 2, but will ring ahead

Author:	Noswizard [ Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
Turbobox wrote: You're welcome! I really need to find time to learn to ride a motorcycle... I feel like I'm missing out on so much fun! At least in your case it wouldn't be more dangerous than riding the G-O-D.

Author:	kickstart [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
Trev, just wondering - are you able to change the orientation of a couple of dip tubes for me as a `while U wait` job or would you need them posting over?

Author:	Noswizard [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
Yes we can probably manage that for you, what exactly are you wanting?

Author:	kickstart [ Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
Where I`m mounting the bottles (towards the front of the bike) the valve outlet is facing forward, I`d like them facing backward to keep everything neat, and shorter pipe runs. What I suppose I`m actually after is the valve rotating 180`

Author:	Noswizard [ Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
I'm confused, why don't you just rotate the whole bottle? I can only assume that you want the sticker pointing in a specific direction relative to the valve? It is impossible to alter the position the valve ends up in relative to the bottle and if it is a matter of the sticker, it would easier (and the only way) to just replace that.

Author:	kickstart [ Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
I have to mount my bottles at an angle tilted forward to make them fit, so if I simply rotate the bottle 180` the dip tube wouldnt be at the lowest point but would possibly be @ 1 - 1.5" above the very bottom of the cylinder - (I was under the impression that the dip tube is angled to the bottom of the bottle under the valve outlet ?) My plan is indeed to spin the bottle 180`(sticker facing down incidentally) but if I could turn the dip tube 180` I could keep the pick up at the lowest point. (They are 2lb blue NOS bottles if that makes any difference)

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Author:	Noswizard [ Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Bandit on gas - timing queries
OK I'm with you now and yes we 'should' be able to rotate the dip tubes for you. It would be an even better idea to upgrade the US JUNK valves to our WON billet alloy valves with SPRV's, as they are MUCH better and SAFER!!!!!