Here's the contents of a thread on another forum relating to Dave's use of the smoooth system;
scat (scalded cat)
I get to be the first to test the smoooth progressive on the track and what do I go and do ?
During my first outing with the smooth progressive system installed on my Busa, I discovered my clutch had finally had enough and passed away. As a result my launches were terrible. PeteB kindly lent me his spare clutch for my second outing (the Euro Finals) and I was looking forward to running some good times as the bike has shown the potential to run mid 8s. Unfortunately I completely failed to dial in the new clutch and my launches remained terrible. Despite my clutch setting incompetence I still managed to reel off a number of nine-zeros and nine-ones at well over 160mph. This was mainly due to getting all of the bike’s 250bhp on the track before the 330ft mark. In fact for the last few passes I had the nitrous coming in before I reached the Christmas tree!
It was a shame I was unable to realise the full potential of the nitrous system, as one of the main benefits of its smooth power delivery is controllable power at the launch. All I can say is it does deliver the power smoothly. In fact the only wheelie I pulled all weekend was when I LAUNCHED with 50% of the nitrous and the clutch locked up (fond memories of my early Superstreet days came flooding back...).
I think another point needs to be made in the systems favour, and that is: I’ve now made 15 nitrous passes, all but one over 160mph (ran out of nitrous!), and they’ve all been made using TESCOS 99 UNLEADED!
Now that’s smooooth!
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Lorcan
It would help matters Dave if you clarified the the spec of the bike and it's times without the nitrous, comparable times with a "normal" dry nitrous system, and the times you are expecting from this new system when all is well.
For example, I don't know if you are running stock engine, stock wheelbase etc....yes I have seen your bike but I can't remember the setup of every bike I have seen this year.
Thanks
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pete b
Isn't there an NSA meet at the Pod next weekend...........Do you wanna borrow my slider clutch .....we know it works and its already set for 1.4s 60 fts.
I'd have to make a plug for the end of the shaft but would'nt take long ....we could have the clutch in .........half hour
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Conger
More power sir? - yes please!
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Noswizard
Pete,
I'll take you up on the offer if Dave's game for it, as I'd like him to have another shot at running a decent number.
Lorcan,
Dave will be best to explain exactly why the bike was limited to only 30 bhp of nitrous using our pulsed dry system but I believe it had to do with being limited to just being able to handle a 50% start power due to wheelie problems.
The bike has forged pistons but I believe the rest of the engine is stock.
It has an extended s/a but other than that the chassis is stock and the bike is in genuine street use.
With the pulsed system and a good clutch he ran 8.96s pass and so far with clutch problems he's managed a best of 9.003s @ 166
But the best part is that Dave reports that the system is so smooooth that he can't feel it come in!!!!
By the way the fuel delivery was maxed out from the start so it was massively over rich right up to full power (this will be corrected for the next event), and the timing had the hell knocked out of it right from the start (11 degrees of retard) which was far too much even on full power.
Taking the clutch problems, the excessive fuel and the excessive retard, I'm very confident that the potential for the smooooth system is AWESOME!!!!!
Regards
Trev
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gwhizz65
The terminal speed alone impresses me as for such a small amount on a standard engine, I believe a best of 166mph!! WOW
There are alot of bikes out there using much more horsepower that don't get anywhere near that. I'm sure with the clutch cured its gonna fly
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Noswizard
Thanks for that Graham, it's nice to get some recognition for my efforts.
Taking everything into account I'm VERY HAPPY with the results;
The Dyno performance
The smoothness of the power delivery on the Dyno and the track
The fine electronic control on the track
The ability to handle so much more than a fixed or pulsed system (even my own)
The reliability
The repeatability
The fact that every aspect of the new system (electronics, mechanics, electro-magnets) all worked perfectly from the first activation to the last and performed in unison.
Regardless of the 1/4 results (even though I'm happy enough with those), I have an unprecedented number of positives that I can take away from the FIRST stages of my development program on my FIRST PROTOTYTPE!!!
By the way I think Dave is being too hard on himself, it wasn't his fault the clutch gave up on him and it wasn't his fault this past weekend was wrecked by oil spills and bad weather.
I'd also bet that he was feeling the pressure somewhat, as I'm sure he didn't want to be the weak link in such an project, which probably made it more difficult for him.
In my book he's a top man for lending me his bike and he made a huge effort to produce the numbers for me.
Regards
Trev
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katana
I'm smarter now than then - or ever likely to be!
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Trev - Sorry Scat slight thread jack coming up.......
At present does your smoooooth system only work with a timer / ramp progressive? Will it in future be able to respond to throttle position or MAP to enable full 3D fuel / nitrous mapping.......Seems a logical step if 0 - 100% are possible?
Threadjack over
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scat
Sorry guys - In Eire this weekend for a wedding! There's always the on 2 wheels thing, though now we've proved it works and learnt lots about how to improve it further, perhapse we should sort it out properly - rather than the v-quick lash up that I threw together - it's not even cable tied in place for goodness sake!
Sort the fuelling, the maximiser programming, etc. then throw it down the track some more.
The slider would be easy to get it going, but it would no longer be a street bike. The lockup would have worked ok if I'd brought my original springs with me then I could have ridden it like normal. A 1.60 60ft would have carded an 8.82.
bike is about 4"to 5" over stock, standard engine plus JE pistons ...
bugger this - it's up for sale - read the spec!
http://www.200mph.net/smf/index.php?topic=32616.0--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noswizard
Katana,
Anything is possible with this system!!!!
Dave,
The sooner we get a "full" and trouble free result the happier I'll be, so if there is another oportunity I'm game for it.
Regards
Trev
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scat
and this is what it looks like
http://www.uk1320.com/2005/eurofinals/t ... bailey.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
scat
I think all that people need to know is that the system works. Proving it can make you go faster/quicker is a bit of a farce as there are so many other factors involved and as we all know people will pick up on any little variable and sway the conversation awayfrom the point. And I can’t be bothered to argue the toss!
Or am I being thick in assuming the benefits of the smooth system are SO obvious anyone could understand them?
Maybe we need a list of benefits and downsides...
Downsides:
Will cost (initial outlay for a complete system) a lot more than a single hit system.
Will cost slightly more than a pulsed system.
Benefits over a pulsed system:
Infinitely adjustable between 0% and 100%.
Non-pulsed flow supplies correct mixture to all cylinders all the time.
Correct mixture allows optimum timing all the time.
The above gives increased power and safety from current jet settings.
The above raises the safe limit of the nitrous settings allowing even more nitrous and hence power, to be applied.
So basically, taking a superstreet bike for example (as that’s this forum’s favourite game at the moment). You could double your nitrous power and STILL bring it in earlier than you can at present.
Please feel free to add more...
Cheaper than a turbo?
Lighter than a turbo?
Can be added to a turbo?!
Of course if people can’t see the benefits they’ll have some catching up to do with the rest of us.
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Noswizard
Advantages;
Lack of thermal shock
Lack of mechanical shock
Lack of transmission of said shocks to rider
Much less load at low power settings (where most problems start)
Lack of uneven power cycles
Lack of overly retarded timing over the majority of the cycles over the majority of the progressive range
Lack of uneven delivery from unmatched fuel and nitrous solenoid response rates to PWM
More precise mixture control
Potential for closed loop lambda control
Potential for throttle control
On the final production unit far less current drain
Potential for much higher flow rate than solenoids (without the associated increase in size, weight and current drain).
Potential for electronic mixture adjustment and no need for jets.
Suppose I'd better stop there although I'm sure I could list a few more if I was pushed.
Dave you last statement will apply once all the factors you mentioned in your opening sentance decide to play ball.
Regards
Trev