NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

It seems that Burt (turbo1320) has decided to act very unprofessionally, so besides his attempts to discredit my products on my own forum, he's now busy doing the same on other forums.

Burt 'claims' that the reason he's no longer selling my products is because he's had problems with them and that they are not up to his standards - lol
Sure he's had one or two MINOR issues (like scratched components) but the TRUTH of the matter is that I REFUSED TO CONTINUE SUPPLYING HIM.

He seems to have overlooked the NUMEROUS POSITIVE posts he's made about my products, PRIOR to deciding that he wasn't making enough profit on them and that these posts PROVE what his true motives are.

The TRUTH of the matter is this;

1) Burt was VERY HAPPY with my products until he decided he wasn't making enough money on them.

2) He then decided to offer kits that used as few WON parts as possible, supplying as many other parts as he could from cheaper US suppliers, with the ultimate aim to avoid selling any of my parts if he could, to make more profit.

Now I have no problem with that and it's fully understandable that a company would be more concerned about profit than quality, because that's the case for most companies.

3) Everything was fine up to this point but Burt then started a campaign to undermine my products on my forum, making negative statements about my products based on his inability to understand pulsing technology and his inadequate testing methods, as well as his lack of understanding of the Revo system.

4) It was at this time that he let it slip that he could get solenoids manufactured himself at a lower price in the USA and I then realised the reason for all his recent negative comments.

5) His aim was to discredit my products, in readiness for promoting his own cheap components.

6) Up to this point Burt had been buying my Pulsoids etc. through Denny, but over the past few months he'd been harassing me to supply him direct, in order to by-pass Denny and improve his profit margin.
I'd been suspicious of Burt's intentions for a while, so I didn't finalise the details of a direct supply (by-passing Denny) and this aggravated Burt, who kept pressing me to tell him what price I'd supply him at. Eventually the delay pushed Burt to show his true colours in the form of a number of extremely negative and UNTRUE posts (due to his lack of knowledge and inadequate intelligence), which I copied as proof and then deleted.

7) Now that it was obvious what his plan was, I told him I was no longer prepared to sell him my products direct, despite his eagerness to continue buying them.

8) You may think that's a contradiction but it will take Burt a few months (at least), to get the cheap copies of my Pulsoids made in the USA and until then he needed to keep buying my products, although why he thinks I'd be stupid enough to do that after he'd posted UNTRUE negative posts about my products is beyond me.

Just for the record, Burt upset a number of potential customers with his brusque attitude and I defended him whilst refusing to supply them direct because I'm loyal to my customers, shame that loyalty hasn't been reciprocated.


While I'm dealing with Burt I might as well also deal with the situation with Denny, as it's very similar.
People have asked me why Denny's prices in the US have been lower than ours in the UK and the main reason has been, that I've been subsidising Denny to assist him to get established in the US market. However for the same reasons as Burt (profit), Denny has decided to phase out our components in favour of cheaper alternatives sourced from the USA. Now again I have no problem with that, except that it would be insane of me to continue subsidising him with big discounts, so he can spend his profit on products from other companies.
Consequently I'm now applying the same terms to Denny as I do to all my other customers, so IF Denny continues to sell any of my products (and I would not be surprised if he didn't), you can expect the prices to be more inline with ours in future.

Based on information that's been supplied to me by Denny's customers, he's already switched to cheaper valves and cheaper FJO control units and it's my guess that he'll be selling Burt's cheap copies of my Pulsoids as soon as they are available. Having said that he may not be happy to discover that Burt was trying to cut him out of the deal by buying from me direct, so maybe he'll start selling generic solenoids instead.

Whatever products they both sell we all know where the knowledge they rely on to make them work comes from.

In future anyone outside the UK wanting a GENUINE WON system, should contact me direct.


Regards

Never bite the hand that feeds you!
Lots of folk are seduced by the quick buck eh?

Never mind Trev. Immitation means you have made it mate.

Well done
Perry

Hm

Just to keep the record straight, I did NOT say that Denny was directly involved in the cheap solenoid manufacture, I've only have that admission from Burt. What I do know is that Denny has informed his customers he intends to reduce the price of his kits by replacing the Pulsoids with a cheaper alternative, just as he has done with the bottle valves and progressive control units, so it makes sense that he'd buy whatever Burt turns out but he 'may' not actually be involved in it directly.

I'd also like to make it clear that Burt 'claims' his solenoids will 'not' be copies of mine but time will tell what the truth of that matter is. However it would be very strange for someone who claimed to FULLY appreciate the advantages of my UNIQUE design over generic solenoids, were to discard all those advantages and just make a copy of a generic solenoid.

Then again I could be entirely wrong and Burt is going to invent a whole new design that is nothing like a generic solenoid or a Pulsoid and if that turns out to be the case, I'll be the first to apologise to him. Burt will also say that his solenoids will not be cheap and compared to generic solenoids he'll be right but not when compared to Pulsoids.

Regards

Very true Perry but no doubt Burt thinks I'm the one doing the biting, because he incorrectly believes that my only way in to the US bike market is through him.

Thanks for the support.

Regards

While I am not privy to any conversations between Burt and Trevor, I read this and felt compelled to "say my piece" (even if it means that I will become persona-non-grata after clicking on the "submit" button).

I've known Burt for a few years - he is often present at the dragstrips where I compete here in the USA. Burt has never told me anything that was untrue.

I am also working with Burt and building a new system for my bike - and I have faith in Burt's intelligence and testing-methods.

...so much so in fact, that I will be using cold-fusion solenoids for the 'functional' portions of my new system.

The pulsoids that I purchased were not a complete waste of money however. I will use them on the purge side.

Fastcat,

I'm sorry to hear you are being mislead by Burt.

If you believe that cold-fusion solenoids pulse better than Pulsoids as a consequence of Burts advice, then your faith is misplaced and he has certainly told you untruths.

You should also question his testing techniques, because he's been testing my Pulsoids at 15 Hz which is RIDICULOUS and the results of such tests are POINTLESS even if they were carried out correctly.

To achieve the smoothest delivery when using pulsing technology, high frequencies are required and that's why our Pulsoids are designed to work in excess of 30 Hz.

Johnny Barb has witnessed our testing and carried out his own independent tests that confirm our Pulsoids do as we claim at frequencies as high as 40 Hz, contrary to the FALSE CLAIMS Burt is making.

Since Johnny Barb has achieved the same results as we have, what does that tell you about Burts testing techniques and how much faith can anyone have in his 'methods'.

Burts ONLY reason for rubbishing my products is because he doesn't make enough profit from them and any statements he makes to the contrary are UNTRUE.

He has made a number of posts on this forum that PROVE this beyond doubt.

When it comes to honesty there are endless posts I've made on this forum that prove my honesty but if you prefer to believe Burt over me then that's your choice.

Regards

The U.S is led by drag racing. I reckon your only option, to break the market, is to sponsor a teams nitrous system. If you sponsor the fastest nitrous Pro Mod - they'll have to sit up and listen.

Trev,

Sorry to hear your having problems, I suppose it's the nastier side of the business market, eh?

I see the cost vs profit in many walks of life both work and play..it's a shame people decide to go the 'wrong' way. Don't let it get to you and just keep doing what your doing

It rarely seems to work. The most profitable car company right now is Porsche! Mercedes are back pedalling away from the cost cutting nonsense. The big 'budget' car manufacturers are on the arses in terms of profits... it seems that you're better off selling fewer expensive, high quality items as apposed to pilling 'em high.

To tell you the truth I CARE VERY LITTLE about the volume of sales of my products to the USA.

The fact that I've sold as many as I have is a HUGE ACHIEVEMENT when you consider the following;

1) Most Americans are EXTREMELY patriotic and would rather die than buy anything other than US products - shame Brits are the reverse.

2) There are now DOZENS of LOCAL US companies for Americans to choose from, all of which cost MUCH LESS and are easier to purchase.

3) The exchange rate has been progressively working against me and is at the worst level it's been at for many years.

4) The HUGE sums of money that US companies spend in PROPAGANDA.

5) The fact that MOST quick racers are offered FREE nitrous products by more than one company and virtually all racers in certain classes get FREE or at very least reduced price kits.

6) I lose 99 out of every 100 potential US customers because of one or more of the above reasons, so imagine how many US customers I'd have if I had the advantages the US companies have.

The fact that we have 3 (could have been 5 if I'd wanted), Pro Mod car customers, when MOST US companies have NONE (including NX as far as I'm aware, despite HUGE efforts to do so), is another MAJOR ACHIEVEMENT and testimony to my systems.

Since I'm on the verge of retiring, there is now VERY LITTLE that bothers me any more and I look at it like this;

If Americans are happy to let blowers and turbos dominate high end Drag racing, then so be it. I've produce products that could reverse that trend but I'm not about to give away all my hard work.
It wouldn't bother me now if I packed in tomorrow and never sold a Revo system never mind another pulsed nitrous system.
I can afford to let my products just sit in my premises, so it's no great loss to me if I chose to do that and as Burt told me "Nitrous will still go on" (as I agreed) but as I pointed out, it would go on being second to turbos and blowers.

Thanks for the support guys.


BTW Fastcat, I'm VERY SURPRISED to learn that you've purchased my Pulsoids and NOT mentioned it on the forum before!!!!!
The last time we spoke you said things were difficult and that you couldn't even run to a set of reconditioned Pulsoids that I offered you at a reduced price.
I guess you must have had a windfall in the last few months and been too busy to let me know that you'd purchased some Pulsoids at last.
I'm pleased to hear things are looking up for you especially as it must be in a big way since you can now afford to waste the cost of Pulsoids on the purge, as well as pay for some cold fusion solenoids.

Since you can only have purchased the Pulsoids recently, it just shows how fickle women can be.


Regards

Cant and will not comment on the above Tec side or members as i do not know them personally but post did bother me a bit

All i would like to say is Thank you Trev , You have always been 100% Honest and proffesional with me unlike a few people i have run across in my introduction to nitrous , products were great as for the help and service i have recived from both you and your team all i can say is Not for a long time have i seen this level of commitment and customer service and then some , and i think that the mere fact my system works so well and exactly as you said it would is a testiment to Your Products , altho due to the stages i have to do my install i know when its done will blow me away :-) ,

And i Do so hope we get to see the masive revoloution and that your products go to many more New customers like me so they to can feel the Won affect

As Always

Respect


Tezz

Tezz,

I can't tell you how much your post means to me - THANK YOU.

Regards

A wise man once said to me, "Never trust anyone in business" and it's sad to be quite true.

People will argue the toss over the dangers of nitrous and killing your engine, then the next minute argue that they can buy a cheaper US system elsewhere.
People don't realise that those horror stories of engine disasters come from those albeit 'better' known makes in the first place and if you want something with better quality, designed for smaller European engines, you have to pay for it.

Honestly, yes I would like to have a bigger profit margin but I wouldn't be happy selling inferior products to my customers. The only time I would use a generic solenoid, is for a purge where it doesn't matter if it jams open (or for holding open my shed door) .

I'm dissapointed to hear of Denny's turn, but at the end of the day, everyone has to make money to survive.

I may not be a 'big fish', but I do my utmost to supply a good qaulity install of the best quality kit available to my customers. Which means there is no choice for me to supply anything but WoN kits.

You want cheap s&^* you could always go to that other Midlands supplier and get some solenoids used for compressed air

I've wondered why I haven't heard from Denny lately. Too bad that he could be heading away from the best.

On the other hand, I don't think it is possible for a full-time agent to sustain himself only on the income from WON. It could only be done as a supplement to an existing full-time income or someone that would just do it for the enjoyment and to add to the hobby. (Wanna new agent for the US? :-) )

Speaking of people from whom we have not heard, what's up with Loopy? He still tied up with the little Loopster?

-Bob C.

Well put, I cant really add anything to that so just thought I would repeat it as it echoes my own sentiments.

Hi All

Well....I am qualified to comment on the tech side

Trev makes the BEST DAMN EQUIPMENT I HAVE EVER SEEN !!!

The design is about quality not quantity (profit)

The manufacturing is better than I have ever seen.

The aftersales service and tech support is second to none.

As an example...for the last few MONTHS.....I have used up probably 300 hours of Ant and Trevs time..to help me with some prototype stuff and support for it...

I have rung Trev at night, from tracks , on way to and from tracks...he ALWAYS answers and assists....

People ask me why I sold my Ferrari to buy a Porsche.....my answer is , Porsche is the best engineered car in the world....

I gave a nitrous talk on Saturday to a large group of Porsche owners at a charity event....one of them asked me if the kit was made by "NOS" ...I replied..."no, its made by the best Nitrous manufacturer in the world...WIZARDS OF NOS....and they are British"

To be brutally honest ,as a businessman I understand the profit motive but pure quality and service is MUCH more important...anyone who goes for profit ONLY is riding for a fall.

And dont you DARE retire Trev....the REVOs are on my list....lol

And whatever you invent next.....

All the best Brett

Thanks again guys, your support is GREATLY appreciated.

I'll do what I can about not retiring but I've recently got closer to doing so than ever before, so I can't promise anything.

What I do promise though, is that I'll do my best to continue supporting existing customers even after I retire and if possible, leave things so my products are still available to those who are smart enough to want them in the future.
Having said that, it looks like selling a business is more complex and stressful than running one, so again I can't promise anything certain on that front, because my main reason for retiring now is to remove the stress from my life, so I can enjoy more quality time with my family.

Regards

Well said Trev!
Family comes first eh?
Did you know that you are about to adopt all the members of this BBS by the way?
That way we can all call you Dad, and you cant leave us....Develish plan eh !

See you soon pop's!!!

Cunning plan!