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Brett928S2
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:36 pm 
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Noswizard wrote:
sab wrote:
Maybe there should be a more comprehensive page of cars that have been WON'd. I know you have a page like this already but maybe it could be updated with all the recent cars you've done (with permission from the owners ofcourse). I think if a page like this were to be updated and/or created as a kind of testimonial thing, it could definately get you more business as people will feel more confident that their specific model has been done before... I know I would, and have yet to find a nos'd 350z. :?
I'd love to do that and we try our best to find the time to do it (as it's a very time consuming job) but something else more pressing always takes priority. Anthony is the only person in my company (so far) that has the experience, etc. to do that on the web site, so when I get chance I add as many as I can (of the high end customers) to the forum. One thing I have decided to do, is arrange a dedicated section of the forum to achieve this goal, because I can do that myself. One thing that I've never given enough priority is taking pics of the 1,000s of vehicles that have and do use my systems, which had I done so would have made this job a lot easier now.
I'm also intending to weed out the most important and most viewed tech threads and put them in a specific section, so that past threads that have been very informative are not lost in the vastness of the growing number of general threads.

Many people I have been chatting with seem to be under the impression that regardless of which kit you install and no matter how it is installed, it will affect the longevity of the engine... the harder the hit the less the life, and the more you use it too. I am still very unclear on this matter as I have no personal experience with nos.
That's TRUE about ALL nitrous kits BUT it is NOT true about WON nitrous systems. I have covered this in IMMENSE DEPTH in small sections on NUMEROUS threads on the forum. The reasons it's been covered on numerous threads is because the reasons for why this is the case are NUMEROUS and to some extent quite complex.
If you read the tech threads on the advanced section, you should find more threads than you have time to read, which all prove my statement is correct.
I could try and condense some of those tech threads here for you now BUT whatever I say some people will still assume I'm full of sales bullshit (which is TOTALLY UNTRUE), so I think the best response I can give is "ask my CUSTOMERS if any of them have suffered premature wear or failure" and as there are plenty of them here to answer that question, you should be convinced by their EXPERIENCE.
Of all the people you have spoken to who have given you negative advice, I would bet EVERYTHING I OWN that not a single one of them has ever used a WON system, so what good is their advice?
Comments from anyone who hasn't EXPERIENCED our products is just as worthless as if I told you that child birth was a doddle, because without the EXPERIENCE the comment is worthless.
The people whose advice is worth listening to are (in order of importance);
1) A person who has used ANY other make of nitrous kit and has then switched to mine, because they have EXPERIENCE OF BOTH - Perry is a good example.
2) A person who has been using my system for a long time and as many of my customers have owned and used my systems for MANY years, you should be able to find a few with that EXPERIENCE.
Something else you might like to keep in mind, is that I've been in the nitrous business for almost 30 years now, whilst EVERY other company that has been solely dedicated to nitrous sales has failed within a few years. The reason for the difference in the time in business, is the difference between cobbled together generic parts which are sold just for a quick profit (by the MANY companies who have been and gone) and WON products which are specifically designed to deliver EXCEPTIONAL reliability and performance.

Maybe you could clear this matter up as honestly as possible on your website so people know the risks involved; pros and cons.
There's one thing you can be CERTAIN of more than any other, HONESTY is my downfall, because if anything I am TOO HONEST for my own good. :evil:
EVERY factor for and against nitrous has been covered HONESTLY in numerous threads throughout this forum (as well as in my book) but as I mentioned above, I will be trying to weed out the most important threads, because it's my bet that new visitors to the forum can't see the wood for the trees, as the saying goes.

I mean it's okay if you have an older, cheaper car, but people that have more expensive motors will want this info more...
Actually people with older cars need this info more than people with new cars usually, because the guys with the newer cars normally have more money to rectify any problems than the guys who can only afford a cheap old car. Consequently I don't differentiate between my customers and they all get the same treatment and I'm sure there will be many here that can testify to that.
The fact that we have had MANY customers come to us with BRAND NEW EXPENSIVE cars (we have a brand new Roush Mustang GT - £40,000 worth, in for fitting at present), should prove that the people WITHOUT THE EXPERIENCE of our products, are to be IGNORED!

Even my own mechanic, who is brilliant and has been in the trade probably as long as I've been alive is advising me against it...
If I spoke to EVERY F1 mechanic in the world, I'd bet that 99% of them would say the same BUT since 100% of them are unlikely to have experienced a WON system their advice would be WORTHLESS.
A customer WITH WON EXPERIENCE is worth more than the opinions of 100 F1 mechanics WITHOUT SUCH EXPERIENCE. :idea:

Regards


Hi Trev :)

Didn't have much time earlier as had a Porsche meeting to attend...

1, That point earlier about ..Nitrous suppliers page....I would be happy to make the necessary calls , but it would have to be later in the year,after my 200 mph plus runs... with your authority of course ??

2, The point above...about customers cars etc.....what about a "Testimonials page".... from people like myself and other forum regulars who are prepared to say ...EXACTLY what they think of their own WON systems , with Pictures...

We , who have no financial interest are the people who others should be reading about and dispelling the Nitrous will damage your engine myth (although that will take time)

3, The point above about the rubbish kits on Ebay is extremely valid....I watch all the Nitrous sales on Ebay and most is total rubbish...

Would it be an idea (which you probably already considered) to put on a BASIC kit yourself ???

I have seen some appalling kits go for a LOT more than yours and at least with yours they would get a QUALITY kit...

Hope this helps ...

All the best Brett :)

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928S2 AUTO V8 4.7-1986-X-PIPES,RMB,ANDERSON RACE EXHAUST, WIZARDS OF NOS MAXX EXTREME RACE V2 CONTROLLER & WON PRO RACE REVO NITROUS KIT 2000 HP CAPABLE.
 -UK 928 1/4 Mile and Top Speed Record Holder- Email managingdirector@pchealthcare.co.uk

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Tezz
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:47 pm 
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when I was researching nitrous, I visited MANY tuning / performance auto mechanics...and you wouldnt beleive the negative comments advice I got from them.......


You and me both M8 :( :(

for me i know all the great advantages of max extrem , but i like the mini max i just wish it could be used to display wideband readings or just any third party input you like
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Noswizard
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:47 pm 
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Brett928S2 wrote:
Hi Trev :)

Didn't have much time earlier as had a Porsche meeting to attend...
Hope it went well.

1, That point earlier about ..Nitrous suppliers page....I would be happy to make the necessary calls , but it would have to be later in the year,after my 200 mph plus runs... with your authority of course ??
That's very kind of you Brett but my point was that we DO THAT very often as it is yet we still have trouble keeping up with the changes.

2, The point above...about customers cars etc.....what about a "Testimonials page".... from people like myself and other forum regulars who are prepared to say ...EXACTLY what they think of their own WON systems , with Pictures...

We , who have no financial interest are the people who others should be reading about and dispelling the Nitrous will damage your engine myth (although that will take time)
Yes that would be handy, so we'll have to add that to the job list to arrange.

3, The point above about the rubbish kits on Ebay is extremely valid....I watch all the Nitrous sales on Ebay and most is total rubbish...

Would it be an idea (which you probably already considered) to put on a BASIC kit yourself ???
Believe me we discuss and consider EVERY OPTION we can think of to deal with this situation. We've designed a hybrid solenoid which is based on a Pulsoid but which can be manufactured like a generic solenoid and we're trying to find a suitable company in China to make them cheap enough to compte with the basic generic shit.
The main problem is, that we can't COMPROMISE our HIGH standards just to make a quick buck. However if we can manufacture a slightly superior
product at a competative price to the junk, then we have all angles covered but it's a lot easier to talk about than achieve. :evil:

I have seen some appalling kits go for a LOT more than yours and at least with yours they would get a QUALITY kit...
That's the most stupid part of the situation as I've even seen our old kits sell for more than our new ones, so I've no idea why some people think that way. :?

Hope this helps ...
If only!!! lol But always grateful for the input.

All the best Brett :)

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Brett928S2
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:52 pm 
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Hi Trev :)

Just reread your last posting about for CUSTOMERS good....rather than yours....

That a slightly hard premise for me as I honestly think that anything that improves YOUR business is to OUR advantage....

Couple of reasons for that,....firstly if you are making some serious money at something you enjoy, there will be no more nasty rumours about you retiring lol...

Secondly, as Nitrous is your PRIMARY interest , rather than money , any extra success you have you will undoubtedly pass on to us anyway...

Having said all that....

I will now try and look at this question from a "customers" point of view...

1, More clothing...as I already said.....T shirts, Sweatshirts, Jackets, Hats, etc etc......reasoning ...we are PROUD to use WON and would happily buy anything that showed that.....


2, Stickers, Sunstrips, Glass badges for cars...etc...same reasoning as above...
On A personal note ..I REALLY, REALLY REALLY like that multicoloured sticker on the back of mine....the one that changes colour with different angles etc...


3, Get togethers.....More of them...not necessarily at racing venues, maybe at car shows etc.....
Again on a personal note I really enjoyed the Pod day ,putting names to faces etc but unfortunately not having enough time to chat to everyone and I am sure others enjoyed meeting other like minded WON users :)

All I can think of for now :)

This thread is an excellent idea by the way :)

All the best Brett :)

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 -UK 928 1/4 Mile and Top Speed Record Holder- Email managingdirector@pchealthcare.co.uk

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DebsTF
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:12 pm 
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I'd like to expand upon the idea of Testimonials.

While I realise that Trev is interested in the 'high end user' because this would break him in to the US Pro Mod Market, I am guessing that the majority of kits sold in the UK are destined for Street Cars.

Possibly this is somewhere where more aggressive advertising would benefit?

I, for one, have lost ccount of the number of times muppets with no experience of nitrous have rubbished me for using it on my K Series.


As an aside, there is now another TF using WON (that's 4 including me) - I managed after lengthy persuasion and logical argument that he shouldn't touch a Cold Fusion system with a barge pole. :D
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superspy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:19 pm 
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DebsTF wrote:

I, for one, have lost ccount of the number of times muppets with no experience of nitrous have rubbished me for using it on my K Series.



make me the second person in that list then, lol

unfortunately a couple of months after fitting it, my head went, and i know that the nitrous in itself wasnt the reason, as it probably would have gone later anyway, the nitrous just helped it along, but you can imagine the responses i got from other people, uneducated people more to the point.

testimonials would be good, particularly if this was on the website driven from a database so people could select their car, and view testimonials or performance results from other people with the same car, this one really would make things better for somebody who hasnt used nitrous yet and wants to get a feel of what to expect, rather than the people already using it.
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Noswizard
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:32 pm 
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With ambassadors like you Debs who needs advertising and if the world didn't consist of a large percentage of muppets, I'm sure that everyone who has ever read one of your posts would already be a customer.

Furthermore, if your EXPERIENCE and outstanding manner of communication can't win over the majority, what chance do I have?

You are 100% INDEPENDENT
You have substantial mechanical knowledge
You have substantial WON experience

Yet despite that most people still believe that ALL nitrous kits are the same and kill engines.

I might as well give up and retire now!!!!

Thanks again for your INDEPENDENT support.

Best Regards

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sab
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:41 pm 
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Trev,

I hope that last post wasn't in some way directed at my post?? Forgive my ignorance, I have read your book twice now... but since I have no real world experience I am still in the process of understanding what is what...

Irrespective of anything, I have read enough of your threads to genuinely trust your word. I too am quite blunt with my words, but that's not something which I intend in a rude manner.. I just prefer people that are more straightforward and honest.
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superspy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:41 pm 
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oh thanks woman, your making him retire early....

rofl
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Noswizard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:03 am 
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sab wrote:
Trev,

I hope that last post wasn't in some way directed at my post??
The reason I use quotes is to ensure that my statements are clear, exact and directed precisely where they are intended, to the person who posted it.
Anyone who has ventured on to my forum is well beyond the "muppet" stage and anyone who has read my book MUST be MUCH better informed than those who are giving the negative advice. ;)

Forgive my ignorance, I have read your book twice now... but since I have no real world experience I am still in the process of understanding what is what...
Nothing to forgive and I'd rather deal with inquisitive ignorance than blinkered "expertise" -lol

Irrespective of anything, I have read enough of your threads to genuinely trust your word.
I'm VERY PLEASED to hear that, because there is ONLY one thing I value more than my pride in my products and that is my pride in my honesty.

I too am quite blunt with my words, but that's not something which I intend in a rude manner.. I just prefer people that are more straightforward and honest.
In that case you're a man after my own heart and I couldn't agree more, it's just a shame that I seem to manage to upset a lot of people with my honesty but then to the majority of people, the TRUTH HURTS and they'd rather hear what they expect to hear even if that's LIES rather than the TRUTH. - HOW SAD!!!!

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DebsTF
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:07 am 
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superspy wrote:
oh thanks woman, your making him retire early....

rofl


OOPS!
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DebsTF
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:29 am 
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Noswizard wrote:
With ambassadors like you Debs who needs advertising


WON does! Because all the muppets think that all nitrous systems are the same! As an example, the TF owner as has just bought one of your systems was leaning towards the CF system both on the grounds of cost (minimal difference) and the fact the supplier (Mashimoto) were insisting that the CF system was comparible with, and as good as, the WON system. :shock:

People are 'sheeple' - they believe the crap they are fed, even when you give them hard evidence! I had to, almost, beat that guy around the head with me skillet before he saw sense!

Fortunately I am now well known in the MGF/TF world and there are people there who have seen my results using your system who are prepared to back me up. It's difficult sometimes because there seems to be an inertia amongst (some) younger males that causes them to believe that a woman can't know jack about engines (and it's bloody frustrating that they only listen to me when the men back me up)!

[/Feminist rant] 8)

Noswizard wrote:
I'm sure that everyone who has ever read one of your posts would already be a customer.


You are too kind. :redface:

Noswizard wrote:
Furthermore, if your EXPERIENCE and outstanding manner of communication can't win over the majority, what chance do I have?

You are 100% INDEPENDENT
You have substantial mechanical knowledge
You have substantial WON experience

Yet despite that most people still believe that ALL nitrous kits are the same and kill engines.


Is why you need some aggressive marketing, and why I believe a Testimonials page on your website for different motors (like Kyle suggested) would be beneficial to advertising your business and breaking down the myths that Nitrous destroys motors.


Oh, and as you say, I am INDEPENDENT of WON, I am a customer, I am NOT on the payroll (wish I was, lol) and I will continue to go out of my way supporting and promoting what I see as the only way to use nitrous.
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superspy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:53 pm 
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on a slightly different note, my suggestion of the day is

Interest-Free Credit, so i can get a bottle heater and progressive now! lol :lol:
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eldoodarino
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:09 pm 
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On my way up to WON HQ the other day i got seriously puzzled trying to find the place... as i was driving round the various industrial units i was getting more and more confused....lol

after numerous phone calls i found the little lane to go down.. :) but then couldn't find a reception and so walked straight past all the porter cabins etc...

so maybe better directions on your retail webpage and a reception sign would have certainly made my first trip a little easier... :)

Won't be a problem again of course... ;)

Can't wait to get WON install sorted now... :)

Chris


Last edited by eldoodarino on Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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superspy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:36 pm 
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now i think about it, i had trouble finding them the first time too, a sign on one of the lamp-posts near the bus stop is probably enough to solve that one, lol
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Noswizard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:45 pm 
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superspy wrote:
on a slightly different note, my suggestion of the day is

Interest-Free Credit, so i can get a bottle heater and progressive now! lol :lol:

We've been trying to arrange that for some years now on and off but there's always been either too much red tape and/or expense involved.

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Tezz
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:55 pm 
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a simple thing and could be inc in cost of kit would be an adaptor from a WON vavle to the USA connect quite a few of filling stations and track side fillers use which in fact if i had had with me other day to get my 11lbs bottle filled at a won supplier would have saved me a bit of time and i dont like the fitting being removed from my vavle on bottlle for a fill

I have one and its very hand indeed
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Noswizard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:00 pm 
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eldoodarino wrote:
On my way up to WON HQ the other day i got seriously puzzled trying to find the place... as i was driving round the various industrial units i was getting more and more confused....lol
If it wasn't for the restraints on signs by the local council I'd have a MASSIVE sign at the top of the road but they won't even consider a small one, because the business does not fall in to an "appropriate" category.

after numerous phone calls i found the little lane to go down.. :) but then couldn't find a reception and so walked straight past all the porter cabins etc...
Having said the above, it seems to me that you would have probably missed a sign if we'd had one there anyway (lol), because you obviously missed ALL the customer guidance signs (including the reception sign), which are as big as we're allowed to make them (approx 2ft long) and situated on the FRONT END of the first Portakabin you see when entering my property. We even made them yellow print on black background (mounted against the white Portakabin) to make them stand out and you still managed to miss them!!! lol
It was probably the excitement of having found us at last! ;)

so maybe better directions on your retail webpage
Yes I think that would certainly be a good idea.

and a reception sign would have certainly made my first trip a little easier... :)
All I could do on that one is apply for permission to fit BIGGER sign but maybe if we make it easier to find us in the first place, customers won't be so overwhelmed when the enter the premises and will see the reception sign we have. :lol:

Won't be a problem again of course... ;)
How true. 8)

Can't wait to get WON install sorted now... :)
Glad to hear it, when are you booked in for fitting?

Chris

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Noswizard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:02 pm 
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xxdrac wrote:
a simple thing and could be inc in cost of kit would be an adaptor from a WON vavle to the USA connect quite a few of filling stations and track side fillers use which in fact if i had had with me other day to get my 11lbs bottle filled at a won supplier would have saved me a bit of time and i dont like the fitting being removed from my vavle on bottlle for a fill

I have one and its very hand indeed

Unfortunately not a cheap component, so we can't include it in the price of the system, but certainly worth adding it to the options we offer when we run through system options with customers. ;)

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Noswizard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:08 pm 
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Just so you all realise your time is being put to good use, we're already taking action to introduce or in appropriate cases press harder to introduce all the ideas that have been mentioned that are feasible, so keep it up please.

Regards

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superspy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:43 pm 
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Noswizard wrote:
superspy wrote:
on a slightly different note, my suggestion of the day is

Interest-Free Credit, so i can get a bottle heater and progressive now! lol :lol:

We've been trying to arrange that for some years now on and off but there's always been either too much red tape and/or expense involved.


i know, i was talking to dave and ant about it this morning ;) lol
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Noswizard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:55 pm 
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I took this picture for you Chris, just to show you what you missed. ;)

Image

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eldoodarino
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:37 am 
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:o mm, that is kind of wierd... lol :redface: :redface: :lol:

as you say... must have been the excitment of actually finding your place after going round in circles round the industrial estates...

There were more vehicles knocking around at the time.... was there somthing parked infront maybe..? :mrgreen:

I saw the huge sign at the gates entrance .... :lol: 8)

oh well... only once.. :?

Thanks for clearing that one up anyway....

Chris
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bobc455
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Is there any room to change the external shape of the solenoids? Instead of a tall skinny solenoid, some applications might be better suited to a short/fat solenoid (as an example). Or maybe different inlet/outlet locations.

You get the idea.

-BC
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Noswizard
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:52 am 
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eldoodarino wrote:
:o mm, that is kind of wierd... lol :redface: :redface: :lol:

There were more vehicles knocking around at the time.... was there somthing parked infront maybe..? :mrgreen:
:lol: A likely story :lol: and although we are usually very busy, we seldom fit nitrous to trucks and anything else wouldn't be tall enough to hide the sign, so you're not squirming out of it that easily. :lol:

I saw the huge sign at the gates entrance .... :lol: 8)
Even a blind man would see that. :lol:

oh well... only once.. :?

Thanks for clearing that one up anyway....
No problem. ;)

Chris

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