NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Nitrous Oxide ( NOS / N20 ) Forum
 
It is currently Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:40 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:08 am 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Oulton Broad, Suffolk, UK
Morning all,

Well, this weekend I'm finally starting the installation on my ST Estate.

I have all the bits, well with the exception of a Venom Injector which I've just placed an order for this morning.

So, with the Scirocco I can use a microswitch to trigger the system along with the Minimax.

With the Diesel, will I need a TPS Box?
As this i'm thinking will determine where the throttle is and when I want to inject?

The ST standard is 155bhp, however it has had a few modifications.

Exhaust,
K&N Panel Filter
De-Cat
Bigger Intercooler
Superchips Bluefin

Estimate BHP although on the conservative side is 185bhp though I would expect just over the 190 mark.

Cheers

Image

Image

_________________
Just a saggy old cloth cat, but Emileigh loved him!

Scirocco on THRLL
Mondeo Estate ST TDCi on THRLL
Mondeo Hatchback ST220 on THRLL


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Advertisement

Wizards of NOS Nitrous Oxide Systems
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:10 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 18640
Location: Doncaster
I've just sent you an email with regards to the Max Extreme and after seeing you have a Minimax already, I thought I'd better let you know that you trade that in against it if you wanted, although you would probably get a better price by selling it on Ebay.

_________________
Regards

Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:28 am 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Oulton Broad, Suffolk, UK
Thanks Trevor,

The MiniMax is staying on the Scirocco, but the Max Extreme has to be the older version with the leads exiting from the rear and not the sides.

This is only due to the installation of where this will be.

I'll have another look and get another spare panel and see if it can be done with side entries of the Max Extreme.


Cheers

_________________
Just a saggy old cloth cat, but Emileigh loved him!

Scirocco on THRLL
Mondeo Estate ST TDCi on THRLL
Mondeo Hatchback ST220 on THRLL


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:08 am 
Offline
Wizard
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 860
Location: Orlando, Fl in 'Merrrrica!
I'm in for a video update! 8)

_________________
sales@noscraftnitrous.com In the U.S.A? Buy WON gear online HERE!

YouTube Channel

Project G-O-D
1999 GS300 PITA - SP Fixed hit, Twin Injector!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:07 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Oulton Broad, Suffolk, UK
Hey Guys,

Been a while, but to be honest it's been quite a S**t year, even this year has been a dreadful start, but just got to keep plugging away at it.

Well, I purchased a DevilsOwn Water Methanol Injection to go a long with the WoN Kit, Started the install of the Meth and putting the cables through for both kits.
Meth will give 10-15% increase on Boost depending on where I set it to.
Normal Boost for the ST TDCi is 22.5psi with an over-boost of 26.5psi as far as I know, but looking at Torque it will quite happily hit 22psi.

Anyway, another dilemma, thought I had it sussed with positions but with the prospect of adding the DevilsOwn Water Methanol Injection system to it as originally planned I'm back to where to put the Injector.

I originally looked at positions on the Turbo inlet (Pos 1) and EGR to inlet (Pos 3 to 4), but to add Nitrous as well, then I have one Venom Injector to install which would normally be on the Air Intake side after the MAF or possibly Position 1 prior to the Turbo Intake.

So do I now go for 4 x 85cc DO1 Nozzles and go direct on the EGR Inlet Manifold which is ABS Plastic and stick the Dry Venom Injector prior to the Turbo at Position 1?

The angle for the DO1 85cc Nozzles mean they would spray directly into the Cylinder on one side of the port as there are 8 Ports (2 per Cylinder).

The attached Photo's are of the Engine Bay same as mine with EGR & Manifold labelled and the Intake showing 7 of the 8 Ports and Meth Positions.

Or.....do I have them all on the Inlet Manifold, I mean Cylinder 1 Nitrous and Meth???

I'm sure some have had experience of using both, if not I do apologise and this is not a plug for DevilsOwn either.


Attachments:
wpid-dsc_0871.jpg
wpid-dsc_0871.jpg [ 348.85 KiB | Viewed 522 times ]
DSC_1104.JPG
DSC_1104.JPG [ 127.91 KiB | Viewed 522 times ]
TurboEngine.gif
TurboEngine.gif [ 19.84 KiB | Viewed 522 times ]

_________________
Just a saggy old cloth cat, but Emileigh loved him!

Scirocco on THRLL
Mondeo Estate ST TDCi on THRLL
Mondeo Hatchback ST220 on THRLL
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:10 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Oulton Broad, Suffolk, UK
Oh here's the install so far of the Boot Install and the Controller which needs a little more filing to get it central.


Attachments:
20160609_162226.jpg
20160609_162226.jpg [ 167.64 KiB | Viewed 522 times ]
20160618_185353.jpg
20160618_185353.jpg [ 168.28 KiB | Viewed 522 times ]

_________________
Just a saggy old cloth cat, but Emileigh loved him!

Scirocco on THRLL
Mondeo Estate ST TDCi on THRLL
Mondeo Hatchback ST220 on THRLL
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:33 pm 
Offline
Wizard
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 860
Location: Orlando, Fl in 'Merrrrica!
BagPuss wrote:
Hey Guys,

Been a while, but to be honest it's been quite a S**t year, even this year has been a dreadful start, but just got to keep plugging away at it.
We all have ups and downs, but I'm glad to see that you're pulling through.

Well, I purchased a DevilsOwn Water Methanol Injection to go a long with the WoN Kit, Started the install of the Meth and putting the cables through for both kits.
Meth will give 10-15% increase on Boost depending on where I set it to.
Normal Boost for the ST TDCi is 22.5psi with an over-boost of 26.5psi as far as I know, but looking at Torque it will quite happily hit 22psi.
Water injection is certainly one of the best mods for TD's and especially for nitrous.

Anyway, another dilemma, thought I had it sussed with positions but with the prospect of adding the DevilsOwn Water Methanol Injection system to it as originally planned I'm back to where to put the Injector.

I originally looked at positions on the Turbo inlet (Pos 1) and EGR to inlet (Pos 3 to 4), but to add Nitrous as well, then I have one Venom Injector to install which would normally be on the Air Intake side after the MAF or possibly Position 1 prior to the Turbo Intake.
You can install both injectors after the intercooler and before the EGR valve (does that valve close on full power?). Keep the water injector within 2 inches of the Venom so that the nitrous can mix with it. This will result in slightly more than expected power since the meth will serve as a fuel. At that point the water injection will still do a proper job. But be mindful of your nitrous to meth ratios as that could result in detonation. Normally, diesels won't take damage on nitrous if its only used with the factory fuel system, but when meth or propane becomes involved, then the margin for error becomes much greater.

So do I now go for 4 x 85cc DO1 Nozzles and go direct on the EGR Inlet Manifold which is ABS Plastic and stick the Dry Venom Injector prior to the Turbo at Position 1?
The Venom should still be at position 5.

The angle for the DO1 85cc Nozzles mean they would spray directly into the Cylinder on one side of the port as there are 8 Ports (2 per Cylinder).
It appears to be the case, and it would also give you more room to grow in the future. The single nozzle will still work if it suits your budget better.

The attached Photo's are of the Engine Bay same as mine with EGR & Manifold labelled and the Intake showing 7 of the 8 Ports and Meth Positions.

Or.....do I have them all on the Inlet Manifold, I mean Cylinder 1 Nitrous and Meth???
Do you mean have both injectors just before cyl 1? If so, that would be too close for even distribution of the nitrous and wouldn't produce the best power as some cylinders will ingest more of it and others less. Then there is the fact that meth is involved and could cause a lean condition where it can cause detonation if the mixture is too far out.

I'm sure some have had experience of using both, if not I do apologise and this is not a plug for DevilsOwn either.
A lot of water/meth brands try to compete with each other for the market, but I found that they're pretty much the same and you can't go wrong with any of them at this moment in time. I've owned DO and I do like their customer service, so they're ok in my book, but the system designs are far from well-designed. I have a WoN water kit that works great, but I haven't had much luck with some of my vehicles to take full advantage of it. However, I should be making a full report on it rather soon with my new project.

_________________
sales@noscraftnitrous.com In the U.S.A? Buy WON gear online HERE!

YouTube Channel

Project G-O-D
1999 GS300 PITA - SP Fixed hit, Twin Injector!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:10 am 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Oulton Broad, Suffolk, UK
Brilliant,

So I'll keep with the Original positions for Methanol with the smallest nozzle at 85cc at Position 1 and just prior to the EGR Valve.

With the Venom, I'll position that about an inch lower as this will jet into the methanol as the nozzle isn't angled like the Venom, that way it will mix nicely.

The photo shows the interconnector for the EGR-Intercooler Hose which needs to be cut, so the bottom port that was originally intended for Boost I can now reloate as my Venom Injector.

Attachment:
20160617_083428.JPG
20160617_083428.JPG [ 185.39 KiB | Viewed 513 times ]


Attachment:
20160617_083500.JPG
20160617_083500.JPG [ 148 KiB | Viewed 513 times ]


Excellent. ;)

DO1 is 85cc/min at the Turbo Inlet
DO3 is 270cc/min prior to the EGR Intake

The original system is for a DO4 Nozzle which is 350cc/min so I'm pretty much spot on ±5cc/min

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the next question is how to work the best Nitrous to Methanol Ratio?

What would be the most beneficial Jet size for Nitrous?

It doesn't have to be massive, just a good all round size that will be well within safe limits and that will bring a smile ;)

I know Trevor has said that Diesels are pretty much indestructible when it comes to Nitrous, but I don't want to go mad and if need can always go slightly bigger later on.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and finally I never knew Won did a Water Methanol Kit? :shock:

_________________
Just a saggy old cloth cat, but Emileigh loved him!

Scirocco on THRLL
Mondeo Estate ST TDCi on THRLL
Mondeo Hatchback ST220 on THRLL


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:36 pm 
Offline
Wizard
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 860
Location: Orlando, Fl in 'Merrrrica!
BagPuss wrote:
Brilliant,

So I'll keep with the Original positions for Methanol with the smallest nozzle at 85cc at Position 1 and just prior to the EGR Valve.
Sounds good.

With the Venom, I'll position that about an inch lower as this will jet into the methanol as the nozzle isn't angled like the Venom, that way it will mix nicely.
Precisely! Wherever the nitrous goes, the water/meth will follow.

The photo shows the interconnector for the EGR-Intercooler Hose which needs to be cut, so the bottom port that was originally intended for Boost I can now reloate as my Venom Injector.
If you need that port, you can still fit the Venom a bit to the side of the boost port. The Venom will be too small to fit in that hole anyway.

Excellent. ;)

DO1 is 85cc/min at the Turbo Inlet
DO3 is 270cc/min prior to the EGR Intake

The original system is for a DO4 Nozzle which is 350cc/min so I'm pretty much spot on ±5cc/min

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the next question is how to work the best Nitrous to Methanol Ratio?
That's the gag. There is no definitive answer when it comes to diesels where meth/propane is involved. Normally, it takes about a 3:1 ratio by weight for meth and nitrous to give a rich A/F ratio (I enquired about this with WoN some time ago) as opposed to a 6.5:1 for petrol. You first have to find out how much nitrous is needed to burn only diesel fuel then you can work your way to the meth. By this, I mean that you have to start out with 100% water in your system, work out the amount of nitrous for the excess diesel fuel, then add meth into the mix, followed by the increase in nitrous quantity.

What would be the most beneficial Jet size for Nitrous?
Again, that's the gag with diesel. You have to increase the nitrous until there is no longer black smoke (or performance increase) from the car. It's all dependent on the ability of the factory fuel system. Once you have that, then you work out how much meth is being injected and increase the nitrous accordingly IF you want more power than the factory system allows.
Because it can be a guessing game, it's the reason why Trev always preached about always adding water when adding fuels in the inlet manifold of a diesel in order to prevent accidents.


It doesn't have to be massive, just a good all round size that will be well within safe limits and that will bring a smile ;)
However much you can ring out of the factory fuel system will determine your limit. Other than that, diesel is practically indestructible.

I know Trevor has said that Diesels are pretty much indestructible when it comes to Nitrous, but I don't want to go mad and if need can always go slightly bigger later on.
Tis true with ONLY diesel, but as mentioned it does change things when adding fuels in the inlet manifold. All you would need is to flow more water/meth followed by more nitrous.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and finally I never knew Won did a Water Methanol Kit? :shock:

_________________
sales@noscraftnitrous.com In the U.S.A? Buy WON gear online HERE!

YouTube Channel

Project G-O-D
1999 GS300 PITA - SP Fixed hit, Twin Injector!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:25 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Oulton Broad, Suffolk, UK
That good,

If need I can get another Tube to drill and tap with the same thread as the Venom Injector so they sit inline, so that isn't an issue for me to do.

So all being well with the Methanol and we should achieve 200 - 212bhp, currently at 185bhp with all the modifiations, so if I start off at 25bhp Nitrous Jet then progress up slowly to achieve 250bhp then we should be safe without really over-doing it.

I may have to have it remapped again at this point although, I'm not sure how they would compensate for both not being in use all the time?

At least I know where the Nozzles and Jet is going which was causing me a headache!

Not now though ;)

_________________
Just a saggy old cloth cat, but Emileigh loved him!

Scirocco on THRLL
Mondeo Estate ST TDCi on THRLL
Mondeo Hatchback ST220 on THRLL


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:52 pm 
Offline
Wizard
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 860
Location: Orlando, Fl in 'Merrrrica!
BagPuss wrote:
That good,

If need I can get another Tube to drill and tap with the same thread as the Venom Injector so they sit inline, so that isn't an issue for me to do.

So all being well with the Methanol and we should achieve 200 - 212bhp, currently at 185bhp with all the modifiations, so if I start off at 25bhp Nitrous Jet then progress up slowly to achieve 250bhp then we should be safe without really over-doing it.
That would be the wise move.

I may have to have it remapped again at this point although, I'm not sure how they would compensate for both not being in use all the time?
WoN had a couple of products that would dump excess fuel when the nitrous was activated, but I don't know if it's still an option now.
You can probably switch maps with a tuning handheld when you're ready to use the nitrous.


At least I know where the Nozzles and Jet is going which was causing me a headache!

Not now though ;)
:yes:

_________________
sales@noscraftnitrous.com In the U.S.A? Buy WON gear online HERE!

YouTube Channel

Project G-O-D
1999 GS300 PITA - SP Fixed hit, Twin Injector!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:39 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Oulton Broad, Suffolk, UK
I wonder if Trevor knows if these products are still available?

The map I have installed is via a Handheld, it's manufactured by Superchips and called Bluefin, however I can take this on and off when needed without too much hassle but if it's a custom map to allow for the additional fuelling each time I switch WoN and DO on, then it may not be straight forward.

_________________
Just a saggy old cloth cat, but Emileigh loved him!

Scirocco on THRLL
Mondeo Estate ST TDCi on THRLL
Mondeo Hatchback ST220 on THRLL


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Ford Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:54 pm 
Offline
Wizard
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 860
Location: Orlando, Fl in 'Merrrrica!
You can try to reach out to WoN by phone and find out if those products still exist.

_________________
sales@noscraftnitrous.com In the U.S.A? Buy WON gear online HERE!

YouTube Channel

Project G-O-D
1999 GS300 PITA - SP Fixed hit, Twin Injector!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

  • Advertisement
Wizards of NOS Sparkplugs
Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits