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 Post subject: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:15 am 
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Learner

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 49
Hello folks, yep im still around.

Right just had the toyota carina e cdx 2.0i springs changed for spax lowering ones (the springs were an advisor on last MOT so thought better performance etc.

How ever saying this the ride for me now, although brillant and still around the corners and you certainly feel the torque of the car with aceleration, I dont feel confidence with the car going over 60 due to feelign too much of the road and how it makes the car act and the way it makes our bodies feel going up and down after 60, especially up hill.

So why is all that important, well I realize that the spax tech springs are "fairly" new tech, where as the cars original shocks were done to safe standard and therefore allowed a load of "spinging" bouncyiness for comfort.

so would say adjustable shocks by a good add on to the springs to bring back some height and comfort, but keeping the stiffiness with the corners?

if so what ones would you suggest.


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:01 pm 
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Wizard

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:45 pm
Posts: 3963
Location: Bucks
You have created a skate board :)

Have you fitted lowering springs onto the existing shock absorbers?

Are the existing shock absorbers in good working order?

Do the existing shock absorbers have adjustable bump and rebound?

You are experiencing bump steer I guess? Hence the skateboard comment.

Does the suspension have bump stops and how far is the suspension off the bump stops when the car is sat still?

Do you feel that it wanders left and right for no reason on a straight road ?

If the springs were degraded and needed changing then maybe the suspension bushes also need changing or upgrading.

How far have you lowered it?

I'm not familiar with your particular car but lowering normally affects the steering geometry as the steering arms are will be at a different angle to what they were when the suspension was higher.

You cant often get away scot free by just lowering stock suspension as the lowering process affects other aspects of the steering and suspension. So you need to make some other adjustments to compensate.

Give us some more info as per the questions above.

Perry

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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Learner

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 49
Have you fitted lowering springs onto the existing shock absorbers?
YEP

Are the existing shock absorbers in good working order?
THEY passed the MOT back in september, but thats the same query the ebay seller was saying there could be an issue

Do the existing shock absorbers have adjustable bump and rebound?
NO idea

You are experiencing bump steer I guess? Hence the skateboard comment.
No idea what that means, the only way i can describe it, instead o the suspension going up and down to take on the bumps and especially the cars up and down movement over 60, YOU feel like you are goign with the motion of the car, like if you were sat on the space hooper. its ok under 40 but going up hill over 60 its no very confidence boosting.

Does the suspension have bump stops and how far is the suspension off the bump stops when the car is sat still?
do you have a picture to give me an example, i coudl check tomorrow or take a picture myself from the engine bay.

Do you feel that it wanders left and right for no reason on a straight road ?
it feels that way when doing around 60 when the bouncing kinda happens, they did the wheel alighnment thing according to the invoice.

If the springs were degraded and needed changing then maybe the suspension bushes also need changing or upgrading.
the springs were corroded, but i hadnt been advised by the garage or by the ebay seller that this might be the case. also im finding it very hard to locate any websites with my car that have such items

How far have you lowered it?
i personally havent lowered it, but going by what spax lower springs are as spec, its 40mm. when im not sat in the car the exhaust is just above a tesco speed bump, so with me or and my mum aswell, it lowers further.


You cant often get away scot free by just lowering stock suspension as the lowering process affects other aspects of the steering and suspension. So you need to make some other adjustments to compensate.
Ok such as what, what else would i need to change so that im not scratching the exhaust and not feeling like im on a space hooper.


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:26 pm 
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Wizard

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:45 pm
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Location: Bucks
Have you fitted lowering springs onto the existing shock absorbers?
YEP
OK

Are the existing shock absorbers in good working order?
THEY passed the MOT back in september, but thats the same query the ebay seller was saying there could be an issue
If the shockers are weak then it will bounce on the stiffer springs

Do the existing shock absorbers have adjustable bump and rebound?
NO idea
I guess not

You are experiencing bump steer I guess? Hence the skateboard comment.
No idea what that means, the only way i can describe it, instead o the suspension going up and down to take on the bumps and especially the cars up and down movement over 60, YOU feel like you are goign with the motion of the car, like if you were sat on the space hooper. its ok under 40 but going up hill over 60 its no very confidence boosting.
Imagine that you had no suspension damping at all. So just on hard springs. You are going into a bend but hit a small bump or pothole. The car then decides its going to steer somewhere other than where you are pointing the steering wheel. Normally the back end will want to skipout in the opposite direction to where you are sterring. Thats bump steer.


Does the suspension have bump stops and how far is the suspension off the bump stops when the car is sat still?
do you have a picture to give me an example, i coudl check tomorrow or take a picture myself from the engine bay.
The bump stops are normally rubber cushions that limit the amount of suspension travel. You wont see these from the engine bay. they will be on the front wishbones and the rear arms.

Do you feel that it wanders left and right for no reason on a straight road ?
it feels that way when doing around 60 when the bouncing kinda happens, they did the wheel alighnment thing according to the invoice.
The bouncing indicates that the dampers are shot and that you are riding on springs only. And some sort of dynamic harmonic is taking over to make the car bounce at 60mph.

If the springs were degraded and needed changing then maybe the suspension bushes also need changing or upgrading.
the springs were corroded, but i hadnt been advised by the garage or by the ebay seller that this might be the case. also im finding it very hard to locate any websites with my car that have such items
If you bought these springs from Ebay the seller has no responsibilty for them unless they are faulty. I assume that you had a garage fit the springs then? Again, they have just done what you asked them to so they have no resonsibility either. Why dont you try google for "poly bush" kits for your car.


How far have you lowered it?
i personally havent lowered it, but going by what spax lower springs are as spec, its 40mm. when im not sat in the car the exhaust is just above a tesco speed bump, so with me or and my mum aswell, it lowers further.
OK! So you havent personally lowered by 40mm. But you have had it lowered by 40mm at a garage yes?? So its 40mm lower than it was before??


You cant often get away scot free by just lowering stock suspension as the lowering process affects other aspects of the steering and suspension. So you need to make some other adjustments to compensate.
Ok such as what, what else would i need to change so that im not scratching the exhaust and not feeling like im on a space hooper.
If you dont want it to be scraping the exhaust then fit normal ride height springs with the factory spring rate. This is the only way you can avoid the bottom of the car hitting the Tesco bumps mate. Its too low!!

If you want the ride to be more responsive then fit adjustable coilover suspension which keeps the ride height near standard. If you fit the right system the car will sit at factory ride height and wont scrape speed bumps but it will be much more able to cope with extra power while still being stable. If you can fit shockers with adjustable bump and rebound it will take you a while to get them set up but you will be amazed at just how much better the ride is without having to lower the car?? It seems that you have just chucked shorter, stiffer springs onto the old suspension which is why its not happy now


You cant blame the Ebay guy or the garage for any problems that you have created by having these springs fitted I'm afraid !!

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1975 MGB Rover V8 aka Slim Rabbit 9.62 @ 137.37 mph with 175 shot.
9.59 here I come !!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 49
Ok well that means for now im scr£wed for now.

Ok. so for the car i have, tell me what i can actual get for it , top to bottom, rather than the info i got from the ebay seller.

Its become obvious to me that being told spax lower springs was very bad idea. But if you are able to tell me a setup that will still improve the ride without being lowered etc, then its somethign for me to at least save up for before obviously trying to sell the springs and get my money back. im obviously going to lose out on a ton of money since the labour will be around £130

bump steer no, as when i got around the corner it gives me confidence, where as before you could feel the car tillt where the suspension was compressing on one side.

the 40mm lower is i guess an automatic thing that happens when you install the springs, somethign ill make sure i wont be doing again with this car.

just checked and unless im googling it wrong, carina doesnt come up, but the likes of the celica do for the polybush


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:21 pm 
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did some searching for the coil over kits. and seems to be just one for the car. http://www.lkperformance.co.uk/coilover ... Id=327997#

Now whilst i died of a heart attack at the price. i came to me senses just now and did a rough add up from the same site for a shock absorber and the same springs i have, and basically found it would be near the same price.

so would i be correct in assuming this kit is what would be advisable to go for in the near future, and what else would i need to upgrade such as the bushes. as that area was rather confusing with google.

by the way when they do adjust the coil overs for height, how much would you recommend to be lowered to keep "comfort2 but gain stability and performance.


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:45 pm
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Location: Bucks
MathewLisett wrote:
did some searching for the coil over kits. and seems to be just one for the car. http://www.lkperformance.co.uk/coilover ... Id=327997#

Now whilst i died of a heart attack at the price. i came to me senses just now and did a rough add up from the same site for a shock absorber and the same springs i have, and basically found it would be near the same price.

so would i be correct in assuming this kit is what would be advisable to go for in the near future, and what else would i need to upgrade such as the bushes. as that area was rather confusing with google.

by the way when they do adjust the coil overs for height, how much would you recommend to be lowered to keep "comfort2 but gain stability and performance.





You would be better off talking to other owners who have done this to their cars Matt. I wouldnt advise unless I had done this to the same car myself ;)

Perry

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9.59 here I come !!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:21 pm
Posts: 151
If you dislike lowering springs (thats what the spax are..) you'll hate coilovers.

For our roads you need compliant suspension, not hard suspension with restricive damper rod travel.

Lowering springs and coilovers are great for track use but awful on any road other than completely flat.

Best bet would be new stock springs by the looks of it, if you were happy before why change it?.


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:23 pm
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heck , i was far from happy . the ride was spongy and rolled going around corners. thats why ive stated the ride is nice from that point, just hard and scrapes the exhaust


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:21 pm
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You can't have your cake and eat it..


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:13 pm 
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of course you can, just need to find the right cake and then enjoy the heck out of it


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:21 pm
Posts: 151
I used to do a lot of trackdays in my MK2 Golf 16V, fitted poly bushes all round, koni coilovers and Neuspeed arb's. Every change made it better on the track but worse for "normal" road driving.

If you look at wrc cars their inner arches are a lot higher, their coilovers have far more travel than a normal road setup so just be carefull..


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Hey folks, well its happened. Have been having an issue with the car the last fw months and it was worrying, so found out after a garage check that the bushes need replacement.

so could you help me find a ideal replacement for all the bushes that suit the springs please.

the car is a toyota carina cdx e 2.0


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 Post subject: Re: Shock absorbers, OEM change or upgrade?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:23 pm
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just wondering if this lot http://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-series/ ... 39/t1.html would be ideal to replace all bushes.

and would ti infact benefit the car to replace all the bushes, or do i just need to replace the anti roll bar ones?


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