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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:04 am 
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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:46 pm 
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I don't see where you'd have a problem with using the loctite to seal that. First, it is normal for some thread to remain visible, given a significant amount goes into the fitting. Second, the loctite needs at least 12 hours cure time before applying pressure (max cure is 24 hrs). Lastly, high pressure sensors very rarely go down to 0: it's more important that it reflect nominal pressures with good accuracy. I've seen HP sensors read 100 psi when disconnected but read dead on when pressures are within reasonable range.

In regard to that seal, I can see where the problem lies there but the Loctite shouldn't have a problem at all with that.

I'm sure Dave will help you sort everything out. I don't have one of those on hand to help you figure it out, unfortunately.

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:07 pm 
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I think the sensor has a tapered thread and the t piece is parallel, I left the loctite for 24 hrs


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Oh, yes that could be the main issue. That bit went over my head LOL

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:11 pm 
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More info from David, phew this is a steep learning curve, reckon I might be an expert by the time i get up and running and with that grin/smile.

Hi Andrew,

I’ve just checked and apologies all of our transducers we’ve noticed have been supplied 1/8th NPT instead of BSP. If you want to put the assembly in the post we’ll sort it out for you as we have the tools to make it fit.

Regarding what the pressure is reading it should be just a setting as the max can cope with 0-5v and 0.5-4.5v signals. Firstly reset the figure back to 150 psi, then hold the “Enter” button down for approx. 3 seconds. You should see where it says N2O Cal 1, it will change to N2O Cal 2. That should put it in to the correct mode for that transducer.

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:19 pm 
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:yes:

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:34 pm 
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Couldn't wait any longer just been out on a road test, did a run 30 to 70 before and after Nos as per manual and no change in the plug colour, not a vast difference in performance but definately noticeable and no unusual sounds, well actually an alarm went off during a bit of exuberant acceleration and I thought what the hell is that whilst gripping the steering wheel speeding along....after a few seconds I realised it was the passenger seatbelt warning, the spark plug wrench and a few other bits made the car think there was someone in the passenger seat whilst under acceleration lol!

I suppose with a 20 fuel jet it is not even going to equate to a 10% power increase so I was not expecting fireworks but it was noticeable, ....so where do I go from here as far as the next jet sizes and im a little worried about how accurate the AF ratio is as the test run showed no difference in the plug colour, is that good or not. The plugs are brand new and dont have much coloration to them at all in fact they were a very light grey before and after the test run which to me as old school seems lean, I know cars thes days tend to run leaner, in the good old days a biscuit brown colour was a good colour?

At least im now at the fun stage :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:14 pm 
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bmwz4 wrote:
Couldn't wait any longer just been out on a road test, did a run 30 to 70 before and after Nos as per manual and no change in the plug colour, not a vast difference in performance but definately noticeable and no unusual sounds, well actually an alarm went off during a bit of exuberant acceleration and I thought what the hell is that whilst gripping the steering wheel speeding along....after a few seconds I realised it was the passenger seatbelt warning, the spark plug wrench and a few other bits made the car think there was someone in the passenger seat whilst under acceleration lol!

Gets the n00bs every time :omgrofl:

I suppose with a 20 fuel jet it is not even going to equate to a 10% power increase so I was not expecting fireworks but it was noticeable, ....so where do I go from here as far as the next jet sizes and im a little worried about how accurate the AF ratio is as the test run showed no difference in the plug colour, is that good or not. The plugs are brand new and dont have much coloration to them at all in fact they were a very light grey before and after the test run which to me as old school seems lean, I know cars thes days tend to run leaner, in the good old days a biscuit brown colour was a good colour?

A 25 jetting isn't going to be super spectacular on such a potent vehicle stock, but imagine the difficulty and expense just to get that kind of increase N/A! The most noticeable increase is in the real low rpm range and I bet you didn't set it to hit low, which I'd encrourage at least a 2000 rpm hit in first: you'd feel a good surge then.

In regard to plug color, it sounds to me that you're spot on with the jetting. If the plug color hasn't changed, then it means the factory A/F ratio hasn't changed and that is ALWAYS on the rich side. Any darker would put you further in the safe zone at the expense of top end performance. The important factor is that they all appear similar to each other (indicating a good distribution) and that there is no detonation peppering. Regardless if the plugs were brand new, they would still turn dark quickly with an excessive rich mix, white for too lean, or peppered for danger. Using seasoned, or even slightly seasoned, plugs will give false readings that can hide a problem.

The fact is that plug reading is THE MOST ACCURATE way to tell A/F ratio and more compared to ANY gauge. I only use A/F gauges after I read plugs and then record the ratio where the plugs are happy as a base. That way I can tell if somethings changed on the gauge and verify with a plug check to pinpoint a problem since the gauge can only read the average of ALL cyls and not the specific one in question, and that's where the plug will stand out and tell you.


At least im now at the fun stage :lol:

You've nothing to worry about at this point. You've already determined that your car likes the jet ratio given and it's all about having some fun and perhaps even stepping up to a 40 or 50 jetting, which is VASTLY different than what you're using now.


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:37 pm 
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Turbobox wrote:
bmwz4 wrote:
Couldn't wait any longer just been out on a road test, did a run 30 to 70 before and after Nos as per manual and no change in the plug colour, not a vast difference in performance but definately noticeable and no unusual sounds, well actually an alarm went off during a bit of exuberant acceleration and I thought what the hell is that whilst gripping the steering wheel speeding along....after a few seconds I realised it was the passenger seatbelt warning, the spark plug wrench and a few other bits made the car think there was someone in the passenger seat whilst under acceleration lol!

Gets the n00bs every time :omgrofl:

I suppose with a 20 fuel jet it is not even going to equate to a 10% power increase so I was not expecting fireworks but it was noticeable, ....so where do I go from here as far as the next jet sizes and im a little worried about how accurate the AF ratio is as the test run showed no difference in the plug colour, is that good or not. The plugs are brand new and dont have much coloration to them at all in fact they were a very light grey before and after the test run which to me as old school seems lean, I know cars thes days tend to run leaner, in the good old days a biscuit brown colour was a good colour?

A 25 jetting isn't going to be super spectacular on such a potent vehicle stock, but imagine the difficulty and expense just to get that kind of increase N/A! The most noticeable increase is in the real low rpm range and I bet you didn't set it to hit low, which I'd encrourage at least a 2000 rpm hit in first: you'd feel a good surge then.

I had it set to come in at 1100 rpm with 100% power all thru as if there was no controller but to be honest the car is so quick stock and the revs rise so quickly it was hard to distinguish any low down hit at the moment, I felt it more mid range, I think, the roads were a bit busy and not ideal for testing

In regard to plug color, it sounds to me that you're spot on with the jetting. If the plug color hasn't changed, then it means the factory A/F ratio hasn't changed and that is ALWAYS on the rich side. Any darker would put you further in the safe zone at the expense of top end performance. The important factor is that they all appear similar to each other (indicating a good distribution) and that there is no detonation peppering. Regardless if the plugs were brand new, they would still turn dark quickly with an excessive rich mix, white for too lean, or peppered for danger. Using seasoned, or even slightly seasoned, plugs will give false readings that can hide a problem.

[color=#BF0000]That makes me feel better


The fact is that plug reading is THE MOST ACCURATE way to tell A/F ratio and more compared to ANY gauge. I only use A/F gauges after I read plugs and then record the ratio where the plugs are happy as a base. That way I can tell if somethings changed on the gauge and verify with a plug check to pinpoint a problem since the gauge can only read the average of ALL cyls and not the specific one in question, and that's where the plug will stand out and tell you.[/color]

At least im now at the fun stage :lol:

You've nothing to worry about at this point. You've already determined that your car likes the jet ratio given and it's all about having some fun and perhaps even stepping up to a 40 or 50 jetting, which is VASTLY different than what you're using now.


40 or 50 decisions discisions?


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:20 pm 
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I'd go with the 50, Chief... 100N/40F

Give it some time to get used to the system and play around with the Maxy. Then pop the bigger jets in and have at it.

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:20 pm 
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I have ordered a 50F and a 120N jet and the transducer and fittings has gone back to the wizards for fettling, waiting for the bits is the worst?


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Going for the 60, eh? That's going to be big thrills for you. :D

You shouldn't go much beyond that level with that manifold design: there are bound to be distribution problems. Mainly, it's the small plenum and TB location. If you get the bug to go with more power, I'd strongly consider direct port to maintain perfect distribution.


And yes, waiting for the bits is the worst part of it all. We live in an age where we have to have everything right now, this second.

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:10 am 
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What do mean 60, I thought a 50 jet=50bhp, also I believe I can go as high as 75 with my inlet arrangement, according to the wizards?


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:15 am 
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Or am I getting confused!


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:35 am 
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A 120 jet delivers 60 HP worth of nitrous.

I was also thinking about the 75 mark being your limit, that's why I said that you shouldn't go much higher without considering and upgrade to DP. But I believe that you'll be happy with that amount of power.

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:53 am 
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:yes:


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:07 pm 
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Fuel pressure tester arrived this morning and gave a constant reading of 51psi regardless of engine revs. Something that is still troubling me a little tho is that a couple of other lads on the forum with the same engine albeit in a 3 series were running 3:1 AF ratios, I think I even read somewhere the Wizard said that the beemers like this ratio, although I would rather err on the side of caution.

Heres a few thoughts, although my intial ratio of a 50N 20F (2.5:1) gives me a nice plug colour and theorectically thats the ratio I should keep, how true is that ratio when you jet higher, ie might it run richer, weaker or the same, my thinking is that if it generally runs richer with bigger jets you could up the ratio to 3:1, also could it be down to Nitrous temp, the lads with the other 330I's were up north where its a bit cooler than down here in the south or are no 2 cars alike and it just depends on too many variables?

Just trying to understand the finer points and I also want my car to run the best it can


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:23 pm 
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bmwz4 wrote:
Fuel pressure tester arrived this morning and gave a constant reading of 51psi regardless of engine revs.
That's good, it means that the jettings will be consistent and there won't be any fear of A/F fluctuations.

Something that is still troubling me a little tho is that a couple of other lads on the forum with the same engine albeit in a 3 series were running 3:1 AF ratios, I think I even read somewhere the Wizard said that the beemers like this ratio, although I would rather err on the side of caution.
That ratio is very close to the optimum for peak power, but the downside is that they have to be more mindful of any increases in temp where the nitrous flow might be too great OR the off chance of a tank of poor quality petrol, resulting in bad things. The richer ratio you are running gives you a better safety margin with slightly lower peak power, but also better low end torque due to the extra richness, which makes street driving all the more fun.

Heres a few thoughts, although my intial ratio of a 50N 20F (2.5:1) gives me a nice plug colour and theorectically thats the ratio I should keep, how true is that ratio when you jet higher, ie might it run richer, weaker or the same,
I haven't heard of that one, and I would say that the opposite would be true where the higher it's jetted, the closer to the fuel pump limit and the leaner it would eventually become.

my thinking is that if it generally runs richer with bigger jets you could up the ratio to 3:1, also could it be down to Nitrous temp, the lads with the other 330I's were up north where its a bit cooler than down here in the south or are no 2 cars alike and it just depends on too many variables?
You shouldn't concern yourself with what others run since it is true that no 2 cars are alike. The richer ratio will give you a greater margin of error with little sacrifice in performance. It's always better to increase the jetting at a richer ratio if you want more acceleration on a street car.

For example, two cars are identical, with 50 bhp of nitrous and always result in a tie. One car jets leaner for 10 more bhp (60 bhp) in peak power and just barely beats the other in the next race. But then the losing car jets for 25 more bhp (for 75 bhp which makes for 15 bhp more peak-to-peak than the competitor) at the same rich ratio from the start and puts a real hurtin' on the lean car. Why?

It's because the 75 bhp rich car made GOBS more power over all rpm giving a faster start and more pull throughout each gear (wider portion of rpm), and it did so while running cooler and safer than the 60 bhp car thanks to the extra fuel absorbing heat. Now the 60 bhp car, although did win the second race, BARELY did so and forced the engine to run hotter which COULD have resulted in some detonation (let's assume the weather was unfavorably hot and both engines were heatsoaked). The 60 bhp car didn't gain much torque at all, making it slightly slower on the start while having a narrower portion of the high rpm power available to in each gear. The 75 bhp car had a safer and more powerful setup with very little risk of detonation.

In summary, it's a better option to simply stay rich and make more power with larger jets.


Just trying to understand the finer points and I also want my car to run the best it can
Unless you're competing in some kind of motorsport, then don't worry about it. Those guys running at peak performance are always adjusting something under the bonnet and taking greater risks, whereas regular street cars rarely even look at the engine for an oil change. Stick with the safe jets and just enjoy driving the car with it's new muscle.

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Thanks for the lesson, i'll leave the ratio as it is for now and see how the road test pans out on the larger jets


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:00 pm 
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I see you have already tried a 25 shot :yes:

I ran a straight 25 shot for a few months on my 1600cc fiesta, its nice and smooth hitting, and theres no real hit like a bigger shot, just a nice progressive increase in power....

I found going from a straight 25 shot to a straight 40 shot made a hell of a difference, much more than the 15 extra horse power suggests, really woke my car up :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Yeah with a stock output of 230bhp the 25 was'nt that noticeable so im really looking forward to see what the 60 is like and then maybe a 75, I got my pressure transducer back from the wizards today but im still having issues making it work with my Maxxy, could be a software issue and the fact that they are supplying 5v transducers now instead of 12v, its a real ball ache with the constant delays. Still must remain positive and be patient.....Grrrrrr


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:18 pm 
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From what i have read, the larger the engine, the larger the shot you need for the same effect as on a smaller engine...

A straight 40 shot on my 1600cc hasnt caused any harm at all, and ive literally emptied a dozen bottles of nitrous into it...

and as Alex has said, dont be afraid to activate lower down the rev range, say 2500 rpm... thats where the real gains are made ;)

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Right-o, and I still say to activate it even lower, especially with the maxy @ 35 hz.

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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:48 am 
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The max has to go back to the Wizards for a software update so thats my job for today!

Funny you should mention the frequency Alex as I was trying to work out which version max i have yesterday by reading the sales literature, I reckon it must be an x2 as it has frequency adjustment (DVF), although you can adjust it right up to 50Hz where is then says Revo mode selected so maybe its a Revo Max?

Whilst reading another question arose in my over analytical brain, that is, the sales blurb says that that max can drive pusoids up to 50Hz the x10 blurb says they have a frequency response of 15-50Hz....but the max installation instructions say the main frequency should never be set above 35Hz, so which is it and why?


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 Post subject: Re: BMW Z4 3.0I Install
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:00 pm 
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bmwz4 wrote:
The max has to go back to the Wizards for a software update so thats my job for today!

Funny you should mention the frequency Alex as I was trying to work out which version max i have yesterday by reading the sales literature, I reckon it must be an x2 as it has frequency adjustment (DVF), although you can adjust it right up to 50Hz where is then says Revo mode selected so maybe its a Revo Max?
Revo mode lets you drive Revo valves, yes.

Whilst reading another question arose in my over analytical brain, that is, the sales blurb says that that max can drive pusoids up to 50Hz the x10 blurb says they have a frequency response of 15-50Hz....but the max installation instructions say the main frequency should never be set above 35Hz, so which is it and why?
Pulsoids CAN operate at 50 hz, but you need to optimize them to do so AND it narrows the power range that you can reliably pulse at: the reward is the smoothest power transition possible with Pulsoids. Stick with 35 hz, it's smoother and you'll be in the right range smaller increases like the ones you'll be running.

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