NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Hello everyone. PREFACE

This is the begining of a long journey, and actually the journey began 1 year ago.
I aim to share every detail of this build as I believe it to be a very agressive and ground braking project.
The goals include:
Applying very large nitrous quantities to a race preped 2.0l Honda motor
Attempting to effectively triple the N/A horsepower (225hp to 675hp)
Establishing a maximum safe shot with pump gas and water injection
Establishing a maximun effort performance with racing fuel on 1/4 mi.

It takes a very long time to create a rock solid foundation. I have been actively building and having professional modifications made to this Honda motor for 10 months now. I am a regular guy with a small business and this budget has long been overshot. I very easily have right now more than 11k in this and a ways to go yet. With the ecconomy here what it is, I am happy to move forward as I have been steadily.

I would like to thank Trevor, first of all, for making this most unlikely build possible. After much research and collaboration with Trevor, I am confident that this project is going to set a new standard for Honda build platforms for years to come.
I am no real fan of the regular build (copycat approach), and have chosen what I believe is the finest nitrous system in the world to rock the boat on conventional builds (turbo, staged NOS systems). Because of the unprecidented accuracy and level of failsafes designed into the REVO progressive system; this should prove to be reliable for evryday use as well. I am grateful to have the opportunity to use this fantastic (REVOlutionary) system.


From the start, I have gotten alot of interest in this project from everyone I contacted. It was like a pouring out of help and experience like I have never seen. You know like if you were building a common combination you might get a that's nice or something; but my goals for nitrous on a Honda 2.0l are above the bar and really got some experts to participate in the conversation. This is a great place in the story to thank Larry Widmer @ Endyn in Fort Worth, TX for his most charitable interest. Larry has agreed to to build this motors custom cylinder head for FREE! That is too say, parts are on me but thousands of dollars worth of customization and CNC work are no charge. Is that awesome or what? He said to send him the head and he'll get it done. I said I couldn't accept those terms and had to thank him in person when I bring it to him. Larry spent the entire day giving my son and I a tour of his facility and educating me on the finest points of race motor evolution. I was honored and humbled.

These are the details of the project.

The car is a 1993 Honda DelSol
The motor is a JDM B20B 2.0l
The cylinder head is a B16 VTEC DOHC

The exact details of each will be focused on within the thread.

Here is a picture of the DelSol upon first encounter, I bought it moments later. This was a previous 9.89 sec. car this year until he decided to part it out and go a different direction. The cage, and suspension are race ready and proven in the 1/4. The car is rust free and weighed 2500lbs with driver and last turbo motor combination. This will make a fine foundation for this build.
I will keep you posted on the progress as I can. Thank you

Welcome Alan S,

That's gonna be an awesome combination!!!
Can't wait for the finished article!

Hi Alan,

GREAT to hear from you and I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to all your future posts on the project.

Hello all,
I'll start this post with some details on the motor. I had researched alot on import motors to find that there are a couple real winners in this arena, namely HONDA. There has been some VERY ridiculous builds with this B series platform (1300hp) and this B series holds the world reccord for fastest 4 cylinder so not much more to say; I went with Honda. The factory forged steel crankshafts have been in service at 1000hp levels even with the 2 bolt main caps! The empty block weighs in at 53 lbs; car batteries almost weigh this much.
I also researched alot about getting the block sleeved. There are several reputable shops here in the states that do excellent work but one stands out above the rest. Golden Eagle Manufacturing has sleeved more blocks than all of the other companies combined. Their sleeves are the ones holding the 1300hp world reccord, again, enough said.
I purchased a JDM B20B motor from a Canadian importer to send off for sleeving. The spare parts from this motor were handy for other projects here at my shop. To simply list a bunch of parts isn't as fun as seeing them so I offer up a bunch of pics of some of the internals being used. The pistons I chose are especially designed for serious nitrous use and are rated at 11.5:1 compression. Though, I am having some serious custom combustion chamber work done which will effectively bump this to 12.2:1. I will detail alot of the cylinder head modifications (which are ground breaking and specific to nitrous use) in a later post. No secrets, but real info you can use too.

Some of the modifactions to the head include a fun project. I have seen open cam gear mods on imports for years and have always though that this was very risky. A simple tossed rock off the road getting consumed in the cam belt will usually break a belt. This breaks alot more parts and I thought there should be a gaurd. Yes, you need a way to adjust the gears easily so I came up with a flashy carbon fiber nose cone mod. These are very light and used on RC airplanes. They are ballanced and strong also. They can be easily removed with a simple allen wrench to make an adjustment then replaced. I have also made some simpler flat disc carbon fiber gaurds to use. Yes, they spin with the camshafts (half crank speed) and should provide protection and a show!

I was having some trouble posting up more pics that I wanted to show; so I hope that these go through.

OK, so three pictures then no more. I must have a limit on the upload or something but here are some more shots.

Very nice parts BUT whoever told you those pistons were good for ANY amount of nitrous LIED!!!! Sure they'll take SOME nitrous but they are FAR from being IDEAL for SERIOUS nitrous use and are you sure they are only 11.5:1 as I'd expect them to be much higher than that with such deep valve pockets.
Before you carry out any head mods;
1) Let me know your intentions
and/or
2) I can tell you the VERY BEST way to mod a head for SERIOUS nitrous.

For maximum nitrous results you don't want to raise the compression and ideally you want the ability to lower it (by fitting thicker head gaskets), as and when needed.

Hello Trevor,
Very happy to recieve your input. What I can tell you about these pistons is from their advertisment profile. After talking with Larry @ Endyn (motor builder), he OKd them and said that nearly all of the piston manufactures here in the states recive their forged blanks from a company called Weisco. He has purchased thousands of their forgings for his own creations (Rollerwave series) that have been used to build the wildest combinations. He said that JE pistons (the ones I picked) are made from their forgings.
JE touts to have the highest standards in the industry for manufacturing. Latest CNC equipment. They have selected this matirial from others because of it's excelllent thermal capabilities.
I'm really not sure how I could have missed the mark after much research, and these were not the cheapest designs that claimed nitrous use/abuse.
I showed you these exact pistons in our very first exchanges when you inquired about the project. I certainly would have taken your input very seriously and I don't remember any controversy over them.

If it has to do with the head, Trevor I asked you a bunch of questions and exchanged several stratagies and got the distinct feeling that we were on the same page. As it is not at this point able to be altered, (pistons are finished to each bore, head is fully machined), I can share with you and everyone here some details about the head in brief. Larry is actually doing a full write up on this head design and hasn't finished it yet but here are some of the pictures that I have.

If it has to do with the compression, I am at a loss? We talked about compression and the REVOs capabilities in several eMails. The superior delivery, and closed loop AFR are what makes the REVOs so capable of making more HP from any given setup. But you know this. You even petitioned me not to use the water injection several times because you claimed the REVO system didn't need the extra protection as they are so fast/accurate? I WILL be useing the very best fuel (VP NOS or VP C23 I think it was) which both have 118+ octane and have been used in the fastest nitrous motors in the world with higher compression ratios.

There are really so many details that are going into the head that I would just like to wait for the write up to have it all explained.
I hope you explain your objections as this is a dicey conversation and I'm trying to be a good listener .
Here is the piston page link:
http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Sport ... _b16a.aspx

The footnote "V" means nitrous use and these are their extreme race version. The P# is 302416

Very long time between posts is not always a bad sign.
The project is still alive and well. I have had some impressive and thoughtful considerations with this project. The first thing is that the former motor (sleeved block by GEM) is not being employed. A much more desirable (repairable) Darton MID sleeve block has taken it's place. This is possibly the finest Honda set up that can be had as my builder Larry Widmer (Endyn) has explained in depth to me. He has never had a failure of any sort (water leaks, sinking sleeves) with this system.
The pistons are being custom made to meet the highest possible expectations. The wrist pins have been substantially lowered to give a substantial increase in strength to the upper ringland. The wristpins are also over twice the regular thickness and hand made for extreme abuse that this motor will throw at it in the form of BMEP.

I had previously thought it to be a very sound practice to spray small controlled ammounts of water (through a seperate REVO) durring heavy spray but have opted not to; rather have a water injection system in the runners as a failsafe to instantly recover safe temps in the cylinder. Along with all the of the failsafe the Max Extreme offers of course. It will also be used manually to address cylinder cleaning through steam generation durring non nitrous operation.

The motor is currently in what seems to be the busiest shop in Texas and is low on their priority list. The Endyn team builds and ships motors all over the world to princes in Saudi Arabia to race teams in Australia. I was glad to get my foot in the door.

I am excited and very patient. I hope to offer some very good data for the four cylinder guys out there when the time comes. Every concievable effort is being made to capture and share tune data and preformance data. Hang in there for a true reccord setting effort for Honda B series motors. I will make some picture available soon for the eye candy guys. My intake manifold is being fabbed out and should make a real impression on anyone not familliar with REVO systems.
Thank you for your interest and patience guys.

All sounds very good (apart from the delay in the build ) and now that you are having custom pistons made with more pin to crown material, I hope you'll be able to improve the crown/valve pocket areas to avoid any areas that could potentially cause detonation.

OK, many of you know how this goes, projects take a long time when you are giving your time to a family, a business and a dream. Also, A LOT of money is needed to build a record breaking effort. This Honda B motor is going to be the fastest B series nitrous car in the US. I say "is", because I am patient, methodical and fully convinced that the parts coming together represent the pinnacle of technology and superior design from the masters of their fields.

Last month I received the fully assembled motor from the legendary Larry Widmer (Endyn Technologies). This was a long affair and required much tact as Larry has stage 4 cancer and is winding His efforts down. Larry has told me that this B series was His last B that He will ever build. I was not so sure how to respond but I was shocked and honored to hear it. Larry may not be around to see the build take root, but only God knows for sure.

I have assembled the finest control system possible with the AEM Infinity ECU and logging software. It enables the tuner to install every bell and whistle possible to control and monitor the entire vehicle. I am employing a four channel wide band EUGO air fuel mixture controller along with a four channel EGT for each exhaust pipe. This array of hardware and flexibility represents the state of the art in tuning and function. A long and patient program of test and tune through steps of performance will allow me to share such a wealth of information and all FACT driven conversations with data and pics to come.

I have not neglected this build at all, but have been acquiring soo many parts, some fully customized like the exhaust, traction bar set up water injection failsafe and wiring system; to the very best dual disc clutches and racing trans that Honda makes. I am currently doing a 4 to 5 lug wheel conversion and some very nice body stylings to set this build apart from the cookie cutter Honda builds. I have not the time to post pics right now but I will give a lot of them over to the thread in just a while.

Back with a few of those pictures and some information about a few things going on.

Because to me, function is more important than form; new ideas spring forth from small technological gains. In the area of weight distribution I have concluded for two very good reasons (Trever would agree with one I'll bet), to locate the nitrous bottle very far forward in the car. In fact it is so far forward that is built into the dash. Just simply reach out and turn it on. It is also a great deal closer to the motor (about 14" away) and makes for a very short path to the REVO.
The bottle's full weight is sitting square on the front drive line where it needs to be for traction's sake.
This mod is as big an advertisement for trouble as can be imagined. This is a picture of my street car being fitted for this feature also. My street car is a white DelSol. After driving for just one day, I realized it got way too much attention and needed to be toned down a bit. I decided to cover the bottle with some black vinyl that all but makes it disappear into the dash from outside the car.

That is however a very unique styling that I have never seen before. Function over form but complimentary.
Though Trever has the greatest confidence in His REVOs, I have opted to have a custom water injection fail safe for instant temperature control of a combustion chamber in duress. I have gathered what I believe are the best available parts from a couple different places based on user reviews, materials and craftsmanship, function and durability. I have decided to go with a push system as I believe these to be entirely reliable; just like nitrous is delivered from a pressurized bottle. The bottle had to be custom made by me as it could not be sourced as I designed it to be very unique and simple. It started life as a simple CO2 bottle (2.5lb) and was transformed into this very simple and rugged water injection vessel.
At first I wanted to use an injector in each port but was able to reduce the system to two injectors that will be located directly above two intake runners each. The fan spray from a single injector will easily be broad enough to fully saturate each intake runner when needed. The lines I have chosen are SS nitrous lines that are abrasion jacket covered. The system pressure being used will never be above 300psi so these are going to do a great job. They are teflon lined and able be readily fitted in a number of ways.
The solenoid for the system is a funny thing really. A long while back I started talking to Trever about His REVOs and decided to not install the kit I had already began building. This Nitrous solenoid is now being used to source water to the injector plumbing. Probably still too good for what it's designed to be used for.
The bottle has to be easy to fill and have a sensor to make level readings. I opted to instal a 24AN male coupler and a simple 24an cap to get things filled. These fittings are well over 1000psi safe and overkill really but very simple and look great. Better than pulling pipe plugs out to fill and such too. The cap size also afforded a very large opening to attach a simple float switch to monitor fluid levels. Pressure from on board air supply enters the y fitting at the bottom of the bottle and migrates willingly to the top of the bottle as air will do adding the necessary push power to expel the water. Mounted on the nitrous solenoid is a 1/4 turn ball valve that can release the bottle contents and pressure when needed. Very simple and rugged.

More pics.
A very sporty spoiler for a DelSol that isn't the same old wing. It is being massaged onto the trunk with little effort. It is actually a spoiler center section from a 2007 Mustang Shelby GT. Fits almost perfect out of the box and was just the look I was going for. I have a front nose coming soon that is from the UK out of the Unique Shop there that will be a perfect and not so well seen piece here in the states.

I have no comments/questions on the build itself, but rather comments/questions on the expected performance...

What is the fastest/quickest that you have been in the quarter mile before? Was it front wheel drive or rear wheel drive? What ET/MPH are you hoping for?

My only concern is that for safety sake you take baby steps on the performance level, assuming that it performs as well as expected, depending upon your prior racing experience.

Other than that... Good luck and I hope that you reach your goals!

I have some idea of how to use the water injection a couple different ways.
At first, it will be implemented on any level of nitrous use until a safe tune is established or the EGT readings are well below any trouble temps. It can also be triggered to operate by the AEM Infinity via an analog output. This can be made to operate when multiple elements are being watched by the ECU for immediate temp reduction.
The water injection can be used for routine cylinder cleaning of combustion deposits also through low levels of steam production.

Thank you for taking interest and possibly adding some experienced opinion to the thread. As I have told Trever in the past, I am always ready to listen to good advice.

It has been a long while since I have raced at the drags. I am 44 and the last car I had was a rear wheel drive supercharged 70 1/2 Camaro that ran low 10s when I was 20. I have raced a few cars between then and now, just not full effort stuff.
I am currently building this car as a pinnacle build of my much admiration and study of the craft I have gained in 25 years. It is a challenge and test of my resolve and determination to push my limits to the edge for a personal best. This is me racing me, hence the Tyler Dirden (fight Club) alias. I hope to achieve a very low 9s pass in the future in the 150+ mph range. This car has already been a 9s performer in it's past build as a turbo car in 2013. The suspension and cage etc., are all up to snuff and track tested.


Your only concern is my only concern also. I have ZERO intentions of making ANY big steps without every piece of data that can be studied to establish a safe tune. I have EVERY intention of sharing this massive amount of data to come with the entire community for research sake. I hate the braggers that never back a single claim up with facts. I will not let anyone down when it comes to data. Believe me when I tell you, I have this covered. I will give a taste of what kind of controls, sensors and abilities the engine management system is capable of in my next couple posts.

I am not after the fame of it for sure, though I am chasing the nitrous title for the fastest B Series build. Currently, as all that I can establish with any real certainty is that several here in the US have place two stage systems on these motors with limited success in performance (in my opinion) and longevity. I am not able to find a single verifiable example of a B Series Honda running nitrous that is any quicker than a low 10. This was at the 200hp level with two stages. As you know from earlier post, this car will be equipped with a 450hp REVO system that may very well NEVER need to be used to it's full potential.

Glad to see you are making some progress, especially that you have the motor now.

Thanks Trever.
It was the acquisition of your REVO system that kicked off the entire build criteria. I am a believer! I want to get everything correct and make you proud here in the states. I have been preaching the hardware to many. I also am very glad to hear about the recent successes with your other REVO fitted customers.

Yeah, the motor took some time to get and the slightest window of opportunity was seized by me to get it built by Larry.
We talked a lot about about the system. He just was not familiar with the implementation through rotary orifice/computer control systems. Larry is a great guy that was very patient with me and granted me a lot of His time and hospitality when I visited. Josh (Larry's protege) pictured below has been methodically trained and handed down this craft. These two guys are very funny together and like to blow things up pretty regularly. NOT MOTORS. explosives.

There are just so many doubts and question off the table when one is dealing with the masters of their craft. Likewise with you Trever. The advancements that you have pioneered are marvelous and prophetic if I may.

I'm in for the finished product.

I have been involved with a great deal of conversion to the original suspension that has taken some time to resolve.
Although many Honda parts are readily interchangeable to upgrade to the better race gear, there are still bumps in the road learning the exact parts and what not.
These DelSols are born with 4 lug wheel hubs and very small brakes for anything but a stock getter. The front brakes are 10.2" disc and the rear are just over 9" discs. They also do not afford a very good choice of custom (racing) wheels as most cars all about have the same gear (blah). I am more in favor of the 5 lug wheel and hub set up for much broader field of parts to choose from. Converting the rear is very simple and used easy to find 5 lug Honda parts with the exception of the hub mounting nut being a Mazda part. The rotors in the rear need not be over sized at all. The 5 lug conversion is the goal there and I have to actually decrease the brake pressure going to the rears because I am using the very narrow drag skinny wheel and tire combo (3.5" wide) to reduce friction otherwise referred to as rolling drag.
Installing a roll control lock out and rear proportioning valve to exactly get the correct pressure is mandatory for this build. The fronts are a different story and require all new hardware to go to the big brake set up from Wilwood. The new rotor size is 12.19" and a forged Dynalight 4 piston brake caliper is being employed. A special rotor called a scalloped rotor is being used to reduce weight by about 4 lbs each side. The largest common axle hub to Honda was aquired from a CRV that was custom machined to accept the stock DelSol bearing/knuckle combination. This will allow me to run the stoutest axle combination and have the greatest braking set up for those sudden stops at the drags. It took a couple shots to get the right parts from Wilwood but everything just looks perfect and I couldn't be happier.
The wheels I have chosen are a ultra light drag wheel from Billet Specialties that are actually street legal here too. I love the look of the 5 lug wheels on the car so much I can hardly express my satisfaction with the conversion and cost.

Here are a few pics of the project and I will be getting some very good pics of the finished conversion as soon as I seal and protect all of the bare metal surfaces before assembling them. I really don't want that rust look creeping in on the custom stuff and taking away from the effort I have made to make this vehicle more presentable and functional.

Here are a few more pics.