NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum
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Spider Plate update
http://nitrous-advice.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3972		 Page 3 of 5
Author:  Noswizard [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:19 pm ]
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Now this is what the Spider looks like when a selection of difference sized jets are fitted.

The smallest plume is fitted with JUST a 25 hp metering jet and each outlet clockwise from that is fitted with jets increasing in 25 hp steps - 25 - 50 - 75 - 100 - 125 - 150 - 175 and the final outlet has no jet.
Now this totals much more (approx 1,000hp) than the plate is designed to flow (700) yet the plumes are still extremely dense but they'd be even more dense if the combined output area did not exceed the input area.
Image

Once again the difference in flow & density between these plumes and the US plate are so obvious that even a blind man could see them.

Even the plume from the most restricted discharge tube is narrow, long and therefore high speed and DENSE compared to the US plate.

Now some of the difference between the density of the plumes will be due to the losses in the supply system used to feed the US plate but that's ALL part of my main point.
My main point is, that it's crucial when aiming to achieve optimum results from nitrous, that ALL nitrous components are designed with the following criteria in mind;

1) Minimise internal flow restrictions
2) Minimise internal turbulence
3) Minimise phase change due to changes in cross sectional area
4) Maximise flow speed

ONLY WON offer ALL components designed with all the above in mind and that's why you see such a difference between the plumes from the Spider and any other discharge system.

Nobody using generic solenoids will ever achieve optimum results from any plate design or any nozzle because the flow through a generic solenoid is so bad.
Author:  Cooperacing [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:31 am ]
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Author:  Beyond [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:51 pm ]
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I must say that does look pretty good there Trevor. While you've got that all hooked up how about a picture with it flowing a good sized shot at 50% pulse rate? That might look interesting...
Author:  Noswizard [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:57 pm ]
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I intended to go one better than that but it has to be a video clip to be of any value, so it's taking a bit longer.

I intend to show the Spider flowing from 20% to 100% pulsed and eventually smooth using Revo valves. :twisted:

Regards
Author:  Racer704 [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:32 pm ]
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The plate does LOOK GREAT!!!
Author:  ADR [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:21 am ]
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How many solenoids are needed for the spider? It looks like 2 of each. The class I race in is restricted to a single nitrous and single fuel solenoid and one purge. For a 300 shot could you use a single solenoid with a teed line to each side inlet?

How soon to the US again, I like what I'm seeing. :D
Author:  ant [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:24 am ]
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Yes you can use 1 Pulsoid and you have 2 options after that;
1) Use just one inlet
2) Split the output with a 'Y' (which is much better than a 'T') and use both plate inputs.

We're just waiting for some final parts to come back from the anodisers, then we'll be sending out existing orders and I hope to be able to meet new orders within 7 to 14 days.
Author:  Janna Rodriguez [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:24 am ]
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Hi trev
Will the Spider make more power than your direct system?
I am trying to decide between the two systems. Thanks: D
Author:  Noswizard [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:09 am ]
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Janna,

That's a good question and yes I'm expecting the Spider to produce better results than any EXISTING direct port (Fogger) type system, including my own.

However, my latest HIGH END direct port systems (which only my existing top customers have seen on a manifold and will be using for the first time this year), use the same core technology as my Spider and can best be described as Semi-Internal Systems (SIS).
You can see the components of the front of such a system here;

http://www.noswizard.com/product_info.p ... cts_id=100

Compared to my Semi-Internal system (SIS), I expect the Spider to come close but I'd still expect my Semi-Internal direct port system to have the edge for the following reasons;

1) The SIS has a perfectly straight flow path, whereas the Spiders flow path has to turn through two 90 degree bends and this means the flow will be better.

2) The positioning of the discharge nozzle tips on the SIS is more flexible than the Spider, making it possible to optimise the location of the discharge to a higher degree.

3) The flow capabilities of our SIS systems are even greater than the Spider, as our SIS systems are available up to 3,000+ hp, whereas the Spider is currently limited to 700 hp, although we do plan to launch a 1,000+ hp Spider when we launch the high flow Revo valves but that could be the end of the year.

4) The SIS systems use either 4 or 8 prs of Pulsoids and for a given power output, this means that it's possible to run the SIS systems at a higher frequency than the Spider (with only 2prs of Pulsoids, although it is possible to run 4prs at a push), to achieve smoother delivery.

Anybody who is interested in running one of my system on an engine with a sheet manifold will almost certainly run quicker times with my SIS systems but if you're limited to a cast manifold then the Spider is going to run a close 2nd.
Author:  insaneron [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:06 am ]
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Heres a little look into my world.The new spider fitted tonight

For those that don't know me this is fitted to a Ford 460 big block with 730 bhp normally asperated
Author:  Noswizard [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:28 am ]
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Glad to see you've got hold of the goodies at last.

What do you think to the production Spider compared to the prototype now you've got it in the flesh?

Are you going to be able to shorten the fuel delivery pipes by pointing them front and back, probably with them cranked up slightly if I remember correctly? If not I'd turn the plate to make the nitrous pipes longest, otherwise you'll have to set the nitrous only delay to match the delivery times for the fuel and nitrous and that would slow the response down slightly.
Author:  insaneron [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:35 am ]
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I think it deffinatly needs a clear manifold its far to nice to be hidden and it was so easy to put together.

the fuel pipes are about 20mm long and the nitrous lines are around 50mm lomg
Author:  Noswizard [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:40 am ]
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That's all good to hear.

Unless I've gone colour blind, those pipe length seem the wrong way round as the fuel pipes have to start from the centre of the plate and curve round to the side, whereas the nitrous ones are straight an 'look' much shorter!!!!
Author:  insaneron [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:22 pm ]
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your colour blind.

i realised after I took the picks what I had done.DOH
Author:  Noswizard [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:55 pm ]
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:lol: LOOK HERE - I HAVE ENOUGH TROUBLE SORTING PEOPLES PROBLEMS OUT WITHOUT THEM FEEDING ME DUFF INFO!!! :lol:

In that case I'd better check that you reaslise that the nitrous must feed down the right inputs and that they were either marked according before it left us or you've determined which is right by testing????
Author:  ADR [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:24 am ]
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Trev,

I think I am ready to purchase a Spider plate system. I have a Super Victor intake on a small block Chevy with a 2 inch adapter plate so I can run a 4150 carb for my class. The distance from the TOP of the intake flange to the floor of the intake plenum is 4.5 inches. Add the 2 inch adapter plate for a total of 6.5 inches. I assume the runner "splitters" that are in the plenum of a Super Victor would not interfere with the nozzle delivery...any insight about that?

Also, can you make a Spider adaptable to allow use without the adapter plate on another intake with the same approximate flange to plenum floor measurements?

I can only use 1 fuel and 1 nitrous solenoid for my class so I believe you said a Y fitting could be used. What all will be needed in the way of the plate, solenoids, fittings, plumbing, etc.

Can I get pricing and details on what I need to do?


Thanks,
Andy
Author:  Noswizard [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:18 pm ]
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In that case David needs a kick up the arse!!! :evil:

The nitrous inputs are the higher entries.

With the Pulsoids switched in position and the plate the right way round (if it isn't already), you'll get away with using a bent pipe but you'd be better with it as straight as possible.

Since you're going to need all the flow you can get to beat the top guys this year, I'd make every effort to mount the nitrous Pulsoids using straight (ish) pipes, just hope it's not too late for the mounting brackets.
Author:  Noswizard [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:32 pm ]
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Hi Andy,

I'll need to discuss the extra length with my CAD man to confirm we can extend the Spider that much and get back to you tomorrow.

In the meantime, if you could complete our contacts page with your full details, I'll be able to deal with your enquiry more promptly.
Author:  insaneron [ Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:49 am ]
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Ive redone the spider pulseoids let me know your thoughts both good and bad

Image
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Author:  Noswizard [ Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:28 am ]
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Ideal. :twisted:

I'd aim both nitrous Pulsoid inlets in the same direction, because I'd expect that to produce shorter supply pipe lengths.
Author:  Four27 [ Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:11 pm ]
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Trev,
Looking at the distribution picture it shows 8 outlets, one of which has a 200 jet, does this mean that this could potentially flow 1600hp, or will the pulsoids be a restrictive factor?
Also, for a 'normal' 2 pulsoid setup (1 fuel / 1 nitrous) what is the max, and also for a 4 pulsoid setup?
(just getting into the planning stage for mine, so will be bouncing ideas around!!)
Cheers :)
Author:  Noswizard [ Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:38 pm ]
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Four27 wrote:
Trev,
Looking at the distribution picture it shows 8 outlets, one of which has a 200 jet, does this mean that this could potentially flow 1600hp,
No it doesn't mean that but we can make the Spider delivery whatever we want, within reasons.
The Spider as we are currently producing it, can flow 700 hp.
The jets fitted to the Spider add up to more than this amount, so the jets were flowing less than they would if the Spider was say a 1,000 hp version but for this demonstration it didn't matter. It would take a real expert to detect this from the picture and I don't know of anyone who could do that and even I may have had trouble, had I not known before looking at the picture.

or will the pulsoids be a restrictive factor?
The Pulsoids could be the restrictive factor before the Spider, depending on which ones and how many you use.

Also, for a 'normal' 2 pulsoid setup (1 fuel / 1 nitrous) what is the max, and also for a 4 pulsoid setup?
We supply Pulsoids with the following flow rates;
150 hp - 250 hp & specials up to 400 hp
so those would be the limits with 1 set of Pulsoid and obviously double that amount with 2 sets.
It is also possible to add 4 sets of Pulsoids rather than 2 big sets to achieve maximum flow and this would make the progressive control better and produce a smoother delivery.

(just getting into the planning stage for mine, so will be bouncing ideas around!!)
Fine, please feel free to ask as many questions as you like.

Cheers :)
Author:  jim sciortino [ Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:24 pm ]
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Trev, I am looking to spray in the 500hp range, with say 50% at the hit ramping to 100% about 1.5 sec into the run to soften the shock the on the engine. Will 4 pulsoids (2 fuel 2 nitrous) be right for smooth progression. I presume that would be the 250hp pulsoids. This will be on a 415ci small block mopar with a 4150 style carb and cast intake(822hp 634tq).
Author:  Noswizard [ Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:42 pm ]
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Yes that's fine Jim.
Author:  ADR [ Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:33 pm ]
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Any news on my combo yet Trev? BTW, I would want 300-400HP from the system so I guess I would need the "special" 400HP Pulsoids since I can only run one of each. Thanks.
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