NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Hello all!
I am newbie to N2O systems but I decided to install one into my Honda CB-1
It's a 1990 year old 4-cylinder carburator bike that is free from any "smart" electrics (no ECU, TPS, MAP, etc).
Stock carbs are going to be replaced with Keihin FCR, stock CDI and coils are going to be replaced with Dyna 2000.
My current N20 kit consists of:
- SB75 base kit with venom injectors;
- Max Extreme V2 controller;
- N20 gauge + dash mount kit (t-piece + thread converter);
- Dynojet WB2 AFR module + AFR gauge;
- N20 and fuel transducers.

As I said I have almost zero experience in installing N20 system, so I have a lot of stupid questions.
I will be happy if you will find time to answer them without beating me

I will start from simple things:

1) Threads dimensions and sealant...
My kit includes 5mm and 4mm nylon pipes.
What is correct thread size for 5mm olives nuts? Is it M10x1?
What is correct thread size for N2O gauge? Is it 1/8 BSPT ?
N2O dash mount kit consists of T-Pice, thread convertor and 5 nylon O-rings:

Does T-Pice have the same thread size on all ends? Is it M10x1?
Where should be nylon O-rings used?
N2O gauge manual says that it is recomended to apply thread sealant.
Is Prematex #59214 acceptable for this purpose? (t 204 C, 700BAR)

2) Fuel supply.
I am going to use additional fuel pump for N2O system, so there is no need to use fuel T-piece from kit.
I want to use some union to connect 8mm fuel pipe directly to fuel solenoid.
Something like this:


This union on the photo have thread size G1/8 which seems to be the wrong thread.
Should it be M10x1?
If I will use such union are there any additional requirements for it? (tapered thread, internal cone, etc)
Is there a need to use 5mm olive for sealant between such union and solenoid?

Thats all for now.
More stupid questions will appear as I will move in the N20 system installation.
Thanks in advance and sorry for my English.

Continuing question 2):
Is it OK to use usual fuel rubber pipe between fuel solenoid and additional fuel pump?
Which pressure should be between additional fuel pump and fuel solenoid (I am going to use kit for additional ~30hp)?

Regards,
Alex T.

Hello Alex!
Thank you for your replies!
Just to be sure that we understand each other right:



1 - that's what i call "union". It is not from WON kit. I bought it in our local store but as we have figured out - I have missed with thread size (it has G1/8'').

My plan is to make my own (CNC) unit like 1 with barbed end (for rubber pipe) and with a base like 4 (M10x1 + seat for olive). Then install it into pulsoid's inlet port (2) with using olive 3 for sealant.



Am I right that your suggestion is to remove pulsoid's inlet prot 2 and directly insert there my current union (barded fitting)1? Does it mean that pulsoid's inlet seat have G1/8'' thread?

You can avoid machining anything because the solution is simple (now that I understand what you mean).

1) Since you're not using the Tee for fuel supply, you can remove 1 barb (union) from the Tee (5). That has the correct threads and size to be inserted into the Pulsoid.

2) Remove the inlet adapter (2) and insert the barb (union from Tee [1]). This will give you the correct connections. DO NOT use the olive (3) as a seal because it will not work and could cause fuel blockage, instead use the Permatex thread sealer.

There is no need for the olive (3) or the nut (4) to do this.

I think [1] should be [5] in fact (according to my picture above).

Thank you very much for explanation. I supposed that you were talking about barbed fitting from Tee so I have included it on the photo with a number
Those metric threads (which may in addition be tapered) have bowled up my brain

My next questions will be about D-Block.

3) Flow corrector
All manuals say that there should be a "flow corrector/plastic restrictor" in the short N20 elbow.
But my kit doesn't contain any "flow corrector":



Does it mean that this corrector is now "integrated" in the elbow or it have been lost/forgotten during package delivery?

4) D-Block mounting
I have read almost all manuals from here and I still can't get one thing:

Where is "underside of the runners" in my case?
Does it mean this:

I have inspected every packet/elbow/etc.
There is no anything similar...

My dealer have sent me an answer from WON about missing corrector:



So... Do I need to use nylon O-ring that came with T-Piece (my first photo in the first post)?

PS: may be it will be better to move my topic into "Motorcycle Nitrous Oxide (NOS / N2O) Discussion"?

Regards, Mike.

Ah, yes. I totally forgot that this is a smaller bike system so, yes the answer from WoN is correct. Head their instrustion and you'll be closer to having that awesome nitrous power, courtesy of WoN.

Hello again
My rebuilding is in progress. Current stage: engine assembly.
Time for N2O installation is coming soon.
So I have new stupid questions.

1) D-Block inlet ports orientation
From one hand inlet ports should be positioned centrally to the D-Block exits and have a straight line between pulsoid's outlet ports.
From the other hand inlet ports should be inserted into D-Block's body "to the end" for sealant.
Is it acceptable to leave some thread's rounds for achieving correct position?
I mean that if I will screw inlet ports to it's maximum I will not get the correct orientation...

2) D-Block outlet ports orientation
Manual says:



What does it mean?

This:


Or this:


3) Bottle refillment
My kit includes 5mm olives for connecting bottle to pulsoid.
As far as I understand it can be used only one time (same as for pulsoid's outlet port for jet changing).

Is there any option for bottle connection to refill it without the need to change anything?
Or should make my own stock of 4mm and 5mm olives?

4) Ignition timing retard
I am going to use Dyna2000 which has retard option.
Does it really necessary for 400ccm to retard ignition during N2O activation?
CB-1 has 11,5 compression raito, it's advance at idle is 16 degrees.

Thanks in advance.

Hello, Alex.
Thank you again for finding time to read my questions

About bottle refilling:
I already have this:
http://www.noswizard.com/4an-to-5mm-m-m-adapter.html
Our local stores use 4an for refilling.
But to use it, I have to disconnect 5mm nylon pipe and this means that I will need new olive when I will connect it back.

May be there exists some option like this:



About ignition retard:
Stock CB-1's engine has 57 hp.
I am changing camshafts, carburator (keihin fcr) and exhaust, which in total should give ~68 hp. This mods require to set ignition advance to 18 degrees on idle and 20 degrees of full advance.
With N2O I plan to add 25-30 hp. Will retard for 4 degrees during nitrous activation will be enough in my case by your opinion?

Dyno works just fine. Just make sure to repeat the process at the strip where conditions and loads will differ from the dyno.

Hello.
I hope it will be my very last question about D-Block and pipes mounting/routing.
The best position for D-Block and pulsoids position will be:



As far I understand from this document http://www.noswizard.com/pdf/optimum_distribution.pdf restrictor should solve the problem of uneven flow distribution.
So is it acceptable to orientate D-Block's inlet port in this manner with using a restrictor?



And some questions about MaxExteme.

1) I don't have a gear position sensor (only neutral sensor).
Do I need to connect neutral sensor to R11 input?

2) Dyna2000 have an input for Retard ignition map activation.
Is there any appropriate Output in MaxExtreme for such purpose?


Thanks in advance.
Mike.

Hello Alex.
Thank you again for your explanation!
One more about MaxExtreme:
Does R12 rpm input expect 2 pulse per crankshaft revolution?

It will accept a wide range of pulse varieties. All you need to do is adjust the number of cylinders to match up to the engine rpm.

If I'll set "No Cylinders" = 4, does it mean, that MaxExtreme will expect to achieve 2 impulses per crankshaft revolution?

This schema http://www.noswizard.com/pdf/max_v2_wiring.pdf contains ignition coil as a possible source for R12 input.
Moto ignition coils usually give 2 impulses on a 4 cylinder engines.

You need to input the number of cylinders needed to obtain the correct rpm, but sometimes unique ignition systems could require a different number of cylinders to input. For example, if you put the number of cylinders as '4' and your rpm reads twice what it should, then you need to input '8' to obtain the correct reading.

Hello!
I am slowly but surely moving forward.
It is time for mounting pulsoids.
I have ebcountered with a problem:



When I was removing a mount (3) and mounting bolt (4) after a preliminary fitment the whole mounting stud (1) had came out
All manuals say that I should never remove it...

Is it critical? What torque should I use to put it back?

I also can't get the purpose of washer (2). Should I use it with mount (3)?
If yes, where should it be: closer to mounting stud (1) or to the cap?

Thanks in advance.


PS: it is a hard task to find right place for pulsoid with transducter on my compact bike...

The packing washer (2) is fitted inbetween (1) and (3) but only if you have the issue of excess play resulting in the pulsoid still being slightly loose when the bolt (4) is fully tightened.



you will notice on my fuel pulsoid (red) there is an extra packing washer fitted to take up the excess slack.

Thanks for explanation!
The purpose of this washer is clear now

But the main problem for me is "mounting stud(?)" (number 1 on my photo) that had came out with mounting plate



As far as I understand "mounting stud" was used on previous versions of pulsoids.
Anyway, is there a solution to put it back in the right way?
May be there should be a specified torque or other requirements?