NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Great news!!!!

We started tests on Dave's bike and found a VERY IMPORTANT problem that's adversely affected ALL this years performances.

Although Dave has only had good weather for a couple of meetings this year and only had a few full 1/4 passes, those have not produced the results we expected. For the last 1/2 of this year Dave has been assuming that the Revo system has been running too rich, causing the engine to missfire as the flow of nitrous was increased by the Revos.
He was lead to this assumption by the O2 sensor and plug readings.

At the start of this year he switched from a combined Schnitz progressive/ignition system to an MSD ignition (for the wide range of retard it offers), on the assumption that the spark strength would be as good if not better than the Schnitz.

Prior to the last couple of meetings I asked Dave if he was sure the ignition strength was OK and he assumed (due to the good name MSD have) that it would be.
I still had my doubts, which is why it was the first thing I checked once we got the bike up here.

The results of the test PROVE that the spark strength was NOT EVEN ADEQUATE for a strong n/a engines requirements!!!

I can't begin to count the number of times I've said to different customers, that a weak spark produces the same symptoms as over rich mixture.

All year we've been trying to rectify a relatively minor mismatch between fuel and nitrous flow through the Revos (which I could NOT imagine was adequate to cause such a problem), when in fact the ENTIRE PROBLEM has been the ignition system producing an inadequate spark.

Why any MSD unit is producing such a weak spark we have yet to determine (Voltage to the unit is good) but we will find the cause and rectify it, so that Dave has a monster spark for the start of next season.

The lesson is NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING!!!!

We ASSUMED the MSD would do the job it was designed for and we ASSUMED that we'd have some problems to overcome with the Revos because it was a new concept.

We were WRONG on both counts!!!!

ROLL ON 2008.

Unbelievable! I'm kicking myself!

My brand spanking new ignition system with what is meant to be (and what looked like when 1st installed) a significant increase in spark strength turns out to be the reason behind my problems all year. It's "funny" how things seem obvious when you know what they are...

Though in our defence, other problems during this years 20 passes (yes, that's just 20 passes!) have confused us and limited progress. It was very relieving to find the problem at last

Trying to find what was causing the problems has really allowed us to put the revos through their paces, and made us look closely at exactly how they are performing (should have done the same with the bloody ignition...).

The amount of control available (revos in conjuction with the max extreme) is amazing; and the fact that I could get from barely noticeable levels of power, right through to the point the spark is snuffed out, on a single stage system capable of delivering 500 to 600bhp with nothing more than a setting change on the max-extreme - is incredible!

Some people come up to me at the track and ask why I stick with it and why I don't go back to known system designs 'that work' - I tell them its because this is so much better than anything else I can't imagine a reason I'd ever want to go back, and that it does work - it's just the rest of the bloody bike that isn't playing ball.

Here is the latest progress report;

1) Due to Dave's bike being built for Pro Mod Drag racing, the gearbox, clutch & tire were not suitable for dyno use, so we had to change all those and modify other elements of the bike accordingly.

2) This lead to 2 major problems,
i) The fitting of a small road wheel/tire and a street gearbox resulted in NUMEROUS problems that wasted MANY hours of dyno time
ii) The fitting of an old crank that had the right gear to match the street clutch lead to a premature bigend failure.

3) After MANY hours of resolving all the issues mentioned above and shortly after we started using the nitrous (at low power settings), number 3 big end broke up and wrecked most of the engine components (crank, cases, piston, liner, head, valves and cams) but thankfully we're able to reclaim the head and cases.

4) Thankfully the fer runs we managed to get prior to the failure, PROVED CONCLUSIVELY the benefits of the Revo/Max Extreme system.

5) Although we were only adding a max 70 hp VERY PROGRESSIVELY, we were still having great difficulty preventing traction issues due to the ENORMOUS amount of torque the system was generating as soon as we started to ramp in the power delivery.

6) Despite not being able to run the full R&D program as we'd wanted to, we discovered a number of VERY IMPORTANT factors that are now contributing to further advancement of the application of the Revo concept.

7) Not only were we able to confirm the EXTREME range and fine control the Revo / Max Extreme has over power delivery but MORE IMPORTANTLY, we were able to demonstrate the EXTREME ACCURACY of the mixture adjustment by producing a PERFECTLY FLAT A/F plot.

8) As a consequence of the big end failure and the closeness of the start of the new race season, we've had to postpone any further Revo R&D on Dave's bike on the dyno till the middle of the year, when there's a break in the race program.

9) Since the engine failure we've been sourcing replacement components and re-building Dave's engine/bike back to Drag Race spec, in readiness for the start the race season.

10) We're also reworking the entire nitrous system, so Dave can benefit from all the advances we've made since we first fitted our system to his bike.

11) Despite the limited benefits we gained from the dyno R&D time, we did pick up some EXTREMELY IMPORTANT information that will CERTAINLY be of great benefit to Dave's performances this year, so we hope to see a good and early start to his season.

12) It may be pushing it a tad but we hope to have his bike race ready by the end of the week and deliver it to him at the Pod this weekend.

13) Time as always is the main limiting factor with our Revo progress but whenever we do get some spare time to spend on the Revo, it always produces POSITIVE results, so we're always moving closer to the day we ultimately release these REVOLUTIONARY systems to the general public.

Here's the dyno sheet from one of the Revo runs on Dave's bike with the Revo system.


As you can see from the bottom trace, the AF was outstandingly flat/consitent and this was as a result of the PRECISE CONTROL the Max Extreme has over the Revo system



Soon after this dyno run, a tired, old big end failed and the rod broke, wrecking the engine.

We rebuilt the engine and Dave took the bike to the Pod for some shakedown runs. After a couple of runs with teething problems Dave reported a very strong launch (the best he'd experienced in over a year) and short distance but Dave had to shut down early as the bike started to get off track.
When he came to start the bike for the next run he found there was a major problem with the engine and had to call it a day. On closer inspection we discovered that a valve had dropped in one cylinder and totally wrecked the engine internals (YET AGAIN), so it seems the improved acceleration may well have induced the "hump backed bridge effect" and were lucky Dave had to shut off when he did, otherwise it would probably have lead to the crankcases being wrecked as well - consequently we are now in the middle of yet another rebuild.

SUCH IS LIFE!!!!

I wouldn't mind so much if the failures were DUE to my systems failing, because then I'd deserve the consequences but its VERY FRUSTRATING to have our R&D program set back by such problems.

While Dave is getting round to running the bikes first ever 6 sec pass, we're now moving on to a 2nd project. Yesterday I was involved in talks with a highly respected, MAJOR international performance automotive company arranging a game plan to fit a Revo to one of our mutual customers cars (which has already excelled using our Pulsoid system), for their assessment of what the Revo can offer over our current technology, before consideration for adding the Revo to their existing product range.
This new project will test the Revo over its widest performance range, as its NOT primarily a Drag application but a circuit car, which will obviously benefit a great deal from very smooth, initially low power transition to avoid destabilising the car, as it accelerates out of corners. The results will be FULLY logged both on the dyno and on the track to the highest degree and will be FULLY INDEPENDENT.

We expect to fit the system in late October and have dyno results soon after but we'll have to wait for next season to see the results on the track.

We also have other projects in the pipeline but I'll save those for a later post.

Staged and pulsed technology is DEAD - Long live KING REVO.

Another example of how stupid some people can be is as follows;

I'm getting a growing number of people (racers) saying they can't wait for the Revo "to work" and then go on to say that Dave running under 7 secs is the way to demonstrate that. What they fail to appreciate is that "the Revo" IS WORKING and all that running under 7 secs will prove, is that the rest of the bike is working as well. Our demo vids PROVE the Revo does everything we claim it does and its only been the lack of a good engine, that has been the reason for our late return to the track and NOTHING to do with the Revo working or otherwise.

It then gets VERY STUPID, because when I point out that other factors are influencing the results (like lack of track time, etc. etc.) they refuse to accept that justification for lack of results (so far) and refuse to acknowledge that the Revo IS WORKING until they see a track result on Dave's bike.

If that wasn't STUPID enough, they then went on to say (when asked how they are doing with their bike), that they are not doing as well as they could, BECAUSE of lack of track time, etc. etc.

So they appreciate that such matters/problems adversely affect their own results but wont acknowledge that the same problems will affect our results when using the Revo, yet we're using a whole new technology, while they're still having trouble getting the best from the current outdated stuff!!!!

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

However to end on a positive note, more and more racers seem to be appreciating the limitations of the current systems and are now actually proclaiming the "potential" they believe the Revo has to offer, so at least that's a step in the right direction, even if they are a good few steps behind at present.

It's my experience that whenever you try anything 'new' and strive for better things in this world, there is always some negative 'going nowhere' idiot that will try to piss on your fireworks...

Last year i starting doing caliper rebuilds and overhauls for other Racing Puma owners and even got my own custom made 316 stainless pistons made up which suited the application rather better than the Alcon ones (for a number of reasons).... one or two people suggested that it sounded good but what if people were to DIE using my setup... which is totally bloody rediculous... either they seal or they don't.. anyway a year later and over 20 cars in my care now... people are very happy with the attention to detail....

This Revo technology sounds totally awesome!.... i'm looking forward to using it next year with my Max Extreme (and a retard unit, when the software is done... )

Shame the revo won't magically make the bottles last longer... or maybe it will..

Chris

All very true and actually we do expect the bottles to last longer for the following reasons;

1) Pulsing solenoids has its advantages over staged kits but it also has the disadvantage of only delivering a correct mixture as an AVERAGE of use, whereas the Revo will be able to maintain a CONSTANT correct delivery = bottle last longer
2) The Revo has a FAR MORE precise control over flow = bottle last longer
3) The results from using the Revo so far are indicating a much better performance improvement for a given amount of nitrous = bottle last longer
4) Ultimately using closed loop Lambda control, it should be possible to run the nitrous at PRECISELY the optimum setting under all conditions, including as the bottle empties = bottle last longer

An extra bonus is that timing wont be such an issue as it is with current technology

And in addition to all that, your engine will be able to handle more nitrous reliably and you/your car will be able to handle more power much more easily = bottle last shorter.

The name of the game is VASTLY IMPROVED EFFICIENCY!!!