NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

The long awaited nitrous REVOLUTION start here, with a whole new concept in progressive flow control technology taking nitrous injection into the 21st century.
WON are extremely proud to announce the official launch of ‘The REVO’ system!

Power is nothing without control and the REVO provides the ULTIMATE in nitrous flow control

The REVO IS; TOTAL CONTROL of smooooth "genuine" power resulting in NO LIMITS performance.

In the following video demonstrations a pair of REVO valves are being operated/controlled by a Max Extreme.

To show the flow is linked to the REVO movement, we added a ‘temporary’ position indicator to each of the REVO drive shafts.

We also flowed nitrous through ‘both’ REVO valves (rather than nitrous and fuel), for the following reasons;

• It's safer

• It's more obvious to see the changes in flow

Our 1st video demonstrates the SMOOTH progressively increasing flow that is ONLY possible with the REVO/Max Extreme system

http://www.noswizard.com/admin1/videos/ ... 0Revo1.wmv

You should have noticed that the indicator positions and the flow through each REVO is different, which is to demonstrate the mixture control that the Max Extreme can achieve. That is to say the Max/REVO system has independent control over fuel flow relative to nitrous flow, to achieve optimum mixture throughout the run.

Both REVO valves could be set to open the same amount simultaneously (as shown in the later clips) but this demonstration shows how the mixture can be adjusted electronically rather than by changing jet sizes.


Our 2nd video shows the 2 REVO valves working at the same rate and turning full on and off in under 0.2 sec..

http://www.noswizard.com/admin1/videos/ ... 0Quick.wmv

The REVO can actually open and close in under half that time but if you want such crude/basic control, then you might as well stick to crude/basic solenoids


Our 3rd video demonstrates the range of control that the Max Extreme has over the REVO flow and shows how advantageous the combination will be over ALL existing nitrous control systems.

http://www.noswizard.com/admin1/videos/ ... 0Forum.wmv

For this clip we set the Max to deliver 3 different flow rate ramps as the Max automatically steps through the gears. We added a break between each gear to define the change in gear but the Max can be set so the delivery continues to rise or drop to any level before rising again without any breaks, if required.

In this example we set the 1st gear to start from zero and rise to 100% then switch off quickly, in the next gear it was set to rise to 100% immediately and then reduce flow slowly and in the 3rd gear it was set to rise from zero to 100 and back again evenly.

The possibilities for how the REVO/Max can be configured are endless.


Our 4th video shows the REVO’s operating without nitrous flow, to prevent the viewer being distracted by the gas noise so you can take more notice of the valve position indicators.
Once again this is for 3 gears and with different settings including ratio adjustment.

http://www.noswizard.com/admin1/videos/ ... 0Forum.wmv


REVO features;

• Low current load - approx. 1 Amp per unit.

• Light weight - approx. 120 grams (4 oz) per unit.

• Compact size – approx. 70mm x 40mm x 15mm.

• Immense power to weight ratio – REVO units are available in 250 HP & 500 HP versions, in the same size, weight and current draw.

• 1,000 HP X10 version will be available in the middle of 2010

• Anything between Zero to full flow and/or full flow to zero smoooothly

• Absolutely instantaneous fuel and nitrous delivery.

• Hardware design simplicity for maximum reliability.

• Advanced and intensively tested electronic hardware and software, proven to be 100% reliable.


The REVO system is the most advanced nitrous system in the world, offering ALL the advantages of;
Multiple stages
Pulsed progressive
Nitrogen boost (push)
Air noids
WITHOUT any of the complexity, limitations or problems associated with them.

A REVO system;

• Does NOT need to be external purged prior to activation as it benefits from a self priming system.

• Does NOT need high Amp power supplies (battery, wiring, switches, relays, etc.), as with solenoids.

• Does NOT need an additional air supply and associated control components, as with air noids.

• Does NOT need nitrogen boost to prevent power loss due to bottle pressure drop.
• Does NOT need the fuel system priming.

• Does NOT suffer from any lag in either fuel or nitrous delivery.

• Does NOT suffer from any steps in the power delivery (as with staged kits).

• Does NOT suffer from a lack of power gain between activation of stages.

• Does NOT suffer from pulses of nitrous flow.

• Does NOT suffer from pulses of nitrous flow being mismatched to the fuel pulses.

• Does NOT suffer from pulsing adversely affecting the fuel system.

• Does NOT suffer from solenoid failures as a consequence of pulsing.

• Does NOT subject the engine to excessive loads.

• Does NOT need excessive timing retard, as with staged and pulsed kits.

• Does NOT suffer loss in power between pulses due to excessive retard that covers cycles without nitrous delivery.

• Does NOT cause traction problems, because it delivers the ULTIMATE in control.

will this work with existing hardware or do you need to update your progressive controller?

This is an entirely new technology and the ultimate aim is to produce a system that replaces "all" the current components of existing nitrous kits (including our own), however we are trying to introduce this change in stages that are relatively easy for our customers to accept.

The first and most basic system will "add" to existing systems (and could even be added to existing US kits although we won't be selling any for that purpose for the immediate future - if ever), will be supplied with a very basic electronic control system, that will open the valve at a predetermined rate to a predetermined maximum power setting (none of which will be adjustable), which will be aimed at the regular street customer.
At the same time we'll be launching a high end system that will also add to our existing systems but if will have a new Maximiser with an extensive range of new features that will allow customers to maximise the benefits of the new technology.

Ultimately we intend to offer a system that makes solenoids redundant and will incorporate many of the advanced nitrous system design features that I've developed (but not included in any systems I've marketed) over the last 25 years.

All existing customers will be given the first opportunity to purchase these products and any who want the full race system, will be given the opportunity of trading in their existing Maximiser (in the same way we have always done when introducing a more advanced product), so I think we've got it all pretty well covered.

Trev what's the flow rate / orifice size for these Revo valves?

Hi John,

The Revo doesn't have a conventional orifice shape but the flow of our 'stock' units is capable of delivering up to 300 hp. However we will be offering special units for selected customers that can flow up to 1,000 hp each and eventually we will offer the Revo's in different flow rate options.

Personally I absolutely LOVE the fact it looks nothing like a normal nitrous kit, if people cant spot it cause of that then thats a bonus IMHO!

The 'main' aim of the design aspect of this project was to make sure they looked NOTHING like solenoids.

Had I made the Pulsoids look less like ordinary solenoids in shape, then maybe people would have appreciated they are NOT the same as generic solenoids more easily.

So to make sure other companies can't make the same false claims about the Revos as they have and are doing about our Pulsoids, ("our solenoids pulse as well as WON Pulsoids"), without potential customers doubting the claim because they are the same 'shape', I've made them OBVIOUSLY different, even though I could have made them look the same.

i had e-mailed trever a while back as i had some questions about revo , and his replies were informative as always,after a few of my friends had read them it helped answer a few questions they had as well .figured i would post them as possibley you may have wonderd something similar.and all information is better when shared


i ran a 150 shot total using 2 sets of pulsoids ,and at launch i start at 30% (50 h.p) and ramp that in under 1 sec and then it is wide open in the other 3 gears for the balance of the run .how is a revo valve going to make any difference in that application?in this example i don't see it.

If your car CAN'T manage more than 30% with a pulsed system it WILL be able to handle much more with the smooth Revo delivery and even if it can handle more, at some point in the power scale it wont be able to and the Revo system will resolve the situation. Back to the pulsed system, say you find your engine can handle 300 hp, that means that to use the same launch power you'd need 15% but it's unlikely that the Pulsoids will pulse that low and even if they did you'd likely find that it would still be too much (because although the numbers say it's the same start power, the engine will react to those shorter busts of 300 hp more violently (relatively speaking) than the longer pulses of 150 hp, so you'd need maybe 10%. Now in that situation with a Revo, you'd have no problem going as low as 10% and you'd actually find you could handle more, maybe 30%. In both these examples, not only is it more possible with the Revo but because you can add more sooner without the degree of violent response (because there are no bursts of high power), you'll run quicker ET's.

-- is the revo mainly designed for vehicle/engine that possibly cannot take a large pulsed shot , but due to applying it more smoothly it will allow it?

That is one situation where the Revo would have an advantage.
There are 2 other main advantages (of the many) that the Revo offers;
1) With a pulsed system you retard all cycles by more than most cycles need because only a few get a full shot of nitrous, while most get none, with a Revo you'll be able to get the best from the N/A performing cycles rather than lose power due to retarding the timing for some cycles that don't get any nitrous.
2) It's impossible (even for Pulsoids, although I could have improved them if I hadn't been doing the Revo work) for a pulsed fuel and nitrous delivery to be 'matched', the fuel delivery will always lag behind the nitrous and the nitrous will always purge from the pipe work sooner than the fuel. Effectively the fuel cycles rises and falls out of sync with the nitrous cycle and that's not going to result in OPTIMUM performance when some cycles are leaner and other are richer than optimum but this will not be a problem with a Revo
Now you (and plenty of others) may think that these 2 factors are just going to improve efficiency and that may well be the case but by improving efficiency we gain the following advantages by achieving quicker ET's using less nitrous;
1) The engine is under less load
2) There is less risk of detonation
3) There is less risk of component failure
4) The nitrous pressure will drop less over a run and further improve efficiency as well as ET's

--or is the revo designed regardless of vehicle/engine in part with the theory that because of a longer/slower build up time and its smoother delivery over that time a larger amount of nitrous can be used over a pulsed delivery,therefore allowing more power to be produced.

Again that is one of the aims but as I hope you've now picked up from the above info, the Revo has a great deal to offer to ALL application. ;-)

--give me a example of how applying a 100 shot using revo valves over the same 100 shot using pulsoids will make for a quicker e.t and mph.as I'm sure it is all build time dependent.

I hope I've already demonstrated that?
sorry not meaning to be a pain ,i 'm sure i have a good idea about how a revo vehicle could outperform a pulsoid vehicle given the right circumstances but just looking for a better ,out of the horses mouth explanation

No problem and I hope my "out of the horses mouth explanation" is adequate.

So in theory 2 sets of REVO's and a Spider plate along with the new controler would be good for 600 total hp increase? And could taper in from 100 or even 50hp up to max?

Welcome to my forum Nitromad.

You've almost got it right - the only part you got wrong was that it's "theory" because it's FACT.

Thank you for the welcome!

I run in a class that only allows plate systems. So could I even or would it be worth it to update my existing system with your components and use my plate? Or should I just run what I have until what I want is available? I don't want to spend anymore needless money on stuff (already spent $1k on this) just to change it all 6 months down the road. I want to do it right but racing starts in 3 weeks here.

I have been lurking your forum all day now. And I havent learned this much in one day since I don't know when. My head feels like it is about to explode But between what I have read and my friend Brian Waldens experience and performance (whom I build engines for) I am a convert! I have even started a thread on my local forum showing off some of your products. And I even have a former employee of an American (not competitor but manufacturer is a better term) with questions that you could prob answer better than anyone.

I am clay in your hands, mold me!

Thanks, Jeremy

Hello nitromad
Trust me upgrade to the spider you wont know your born.we have taken over a second off our time working with trev and the prototype spider.I cant wait for the production one to land on my doorstep.

The production Revo units were in track use for the first time this weekend on Dave Bailey's Pro Mod bike. Once again Dave was an eager participant in the Revo development program and I'm very grateful to him for his solid commitment to that.

Dave managed to run a 7.0 ish time last year using our previous pulsed system and was prevented from running any quicker due to high levels of torque causing traction problems, even on just 20% power settings (the lowest possible on a pulsed system), so I felt confident the ability of the Revo's to deliver as low as 1% power would resolve this issue and he'd ultimately run quicker when using Revo units.

Unfortunately we missed 2 opportunities to track test the system and Dave was dropped in the deep end, having to use the new system for the first time at a major event, rather than at a test event.

I can HAPPILY report that despite this situation Dave ran SLOWER using the Revo than he did when using the pulsed system.

No doubt you are wondering why I could be happy that he'd run a slower time and OBVIOUSLY I'd be happier still if he'd run a quicker time but on a first attempt that would have been a dream come true and we all know dreams seldom do that.

Anyway, the reason I'm happy with the slower times, is because the main reason why his times were slower was TOO LITTLE power at the start of the run!!!

THIS PROVES THAT THE REVO CONCEPT WORKS PERFECTLY!!!!

To expand on this I'll give you some numbers.

For a direct comparison we limited the Revo system to just 200 hp the same as Dave had the pulsed system set to.

Dave was previously unable to launch with 20% of 200 hp (40 hp in 'theory' at least), so he decided to set the Revo to launch with just 10% and rather than just resulting in a 10% drop in power, Dave reported SUBSTANTIALLY LESS power.

On the next run he increased the start power to 20% and reported back again saying it was better but still much less power than the bike could handle.

He then increased the start power to 30% and this time he was happier with the increase but it was still less than the bike could handle.

Unfortunately other problems with spark plugs prevented Dave from covering the whole 1/4 mile on full power to achieve a representative result of what the Revo could deliver on this run (and a couple of his previous ones) but the fact that 30% of Revo power is less aggressive than 20% of pulsed power proves the concept will eventually deliver the results we want.

Prior to this weekend I anticipated that Dave might need at least 40% of GENUINE power to produce the same acceleration as 20% PULSED power but I now believe it could be as much as 50% and that gives us yet more advantages over pulsed systems.

I'll go into these advantages another time but for now I'll leave it here and just state CONCLUSIVELY;

THE REVO SYSTEM WORKS JUST AS I DESIGNED IT TO!!!!

WATCH THIS THREAD FOR FUTURE UPDATES.

just a quickie, as I'm shattered (and there's work tomorrow!)



previously: Using 200bhp jets, pulsed at 20% (40bhp) over the first 60ft, at the Pod during the Euro-finals (ie, the best track prep), would blow the tyre away. (I got round this at the time by hitting 2nd gear almost immediately after launching.).

Now using the Revo: Same clutch settings, same setup, even the same slick!. Using Revos that will flow 500 to 600bhp of nitrous (!), I set them (with the Max Extreme) to give a maximum setting of 200bhp, then tried different launch settings and got as high as 40% (80bhp) with LITERALLY NO TYRE SPIN, before being knocked out of competition due to ignition/plug problems!



The whole of the Funnybike class was suffering the "first meeting blues", with a seemingly endless list of problems... which made me feel better

...and no engine damage! I've been resisting multiple nitrous stages for a long time now, and this technology shows I was right to wait

ALL the first batch of Revo's are intended for use in addition to Pulsoids.
Even though I'm quite confident they will work perfectly well alone, I'm making absolutely sure that no unexpected problems catch us out by using Pulsoids as back ups, just as most US nitrous companies advise the use of a back up solenoid when pulsing their solenoids.

Once I've had an adequate number of customers getting reliable results from this combination, we'll start offering them for general sale as add ons and then start using them as stand alone units on select customers vehicles. Only after this process has been carried out 100% reliably will we start selling the Revos as stand alone units to the general public.

We've discovered a few factors by testing on Dave's bike that we hadn't considered (due to it having 2 sets of Revo units), so we're working on those.
It was always my intention to first use this technology on an electronic dry system but as Dave was in greatest need I gave him the first option. However we'll be fitting a Revo in the next couple of weeks to an existing customers Busa, that is currently using a 3 stage dry system and I'm confident that achieving optimum results will be much easier.

Dave will be assessing the O2 info and will report his findings to me and I'll pass them on.

Just to ensure there is no misunderstanding, the Pulsoids were just switched open and NOT pulsed and the Revo's did the rest.

What I can also tell you is that the fuel pressure and nitrous pressure log traces, were perfectly smooth and dropped in unison.

As the saying goes....................
Power is nothing without control!

Nitrous has finally hit the 21st century!

How very true!!!!

Outstanding!!!!

Right I'm back from Santa Pond!
We were just about to storm Noah's ark before the flood got too high when I left for home (on advice from the met office...).

Anyway! what did I learn from my latest 2 passes? :

1st pass I took an educated stab at what setting to use.
Note: The Revo's have been tuned to near perfection by the lads since my last outing, and now the ignition is working correctly I had no real baseline to start from... and we all knew it was going to rain so the pressure for a good tune-up was on!
Now remembering my (single stage) set up can supply 600bhp of nitrous, using the Max extreme I limited the maximum power to just 150bhp. I launched at 60bhp, held that power for 0.5 sec, then built to 150 bhp over the next 1.5 seconds. This gave the best 60ft I've had in a very long time! and a great start point to work from. For some reson I headed to the wall and backed off lots, but still pulled a 7.701 @ 163mph.
###The best part from my point of view is the 60bhp launch point, which you'll notice is 10% of the system's ability! Now getting 10% of a single stage 600bhp pulsed system is a) impossible, b) very "lumpy" if you can get it, c) will probably melt something, and d) will require a huge amount of retard... WHERE I HAD NONE!!!! that's right I started at no retard and ramped in (a rather enthusiastic )6 over the next couple of seconds.###

2nd pass I raised the maximum nitrous power to a healthy 250bhp, and increased the launch power by starting the ramp half a second earlier (ie not holding 60bhp for the first 0.5 sec like in the first pass but ramping up immediately) . Also the ramp was extended to reach the 250 maximum. Unfortunately (as is oft the case) The left hand lane wasn't as good as the right (everyone tells me after my run!) and with hindsight my previous launch setting would have been a better bet (or a bit power more to increase wheel speed and stop it grabbing - there are lots of theories with tyre shake). However: the 60ft was just a shade slower than the previous run, despite the majority of it consisting of tyre shake (the evidence of which you could clearly make out by the rubber marks on the track). This vibration loosened one of the copper pipe nitrous supply lines venting the nitrous under the bodywork and causing half the enging to receive huge amounts of fuel only and hence no power, so I had to back off and finish the pass on part throttle. I did however run for a short time at full throttle and the half of the engine that was receiving the full 250bhp worked fine, so I'm happy with the fuelling aspect. It's also the most nitrous power I've been able to add to the bike up to this point (all be it to only 2 cylinders...) so I have another tentative tick in the box

So, 2 passes, £300+ each pass, all looking very good on the dual-revo wet system front, roll on the next meeting mid June

Once again you've done everything you could to move the program forward and you have my sincere gratitude for that.

Best wishes for the next meeting.

Thank you - and you're most welcome

re the 60ft: I've run a 7.18 with a worse 60ft than that.
Looking at the 1/4 track time (330ft) it was heading for a low 7.2 with that power. So having the same setting, not backing off, and ramping in the extra power would have qualified me quite nicely this weekend.

That sounds a very respectable time for such a small dose of gas and on what would have been your FIRST run with the system working correctly.

I think that bodes well for your next meeting, weather permitting.

Unfortunately yet more rain washed away Dave's chances of progressing with the Revo program, as track time only allowed ONE qualifying run (which got out of shape) and one race run where a plug gave up, causing it to misfire all the way down the track.

We now have to wait approx. THREE months before we get another chance.

Isn't it always the way!!!!