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 Post subject: Pulsoid design & quality compared to US generic solenoids
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:28 pm 
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The solenoids are the most important part of your nitrous system for reliability and performance, so you should make sure you get the BEST!!
EVERY other company offers generic solenoids which are NOT specifically designed for nitrous use.


Solenoid features compared

Here are a few 'key' comparison factors;

1) Pulsoids have relatively larger clearances between the plunger and bore, so there is no contact and hence no wear!!!
Most other solenoids run close tolerances which when pulsed result in accelerated wear that produces magnetic particles, that get trapped in the magnetic field and cause the plunger to seize.

2) Pulsoids have a one piece CNC machined billet alloy core / body, so there is no welding and no bore distortion. Combine this with the fact that the bore to plunger clearance is much greater than US made solenoids in the first place and you should be able to see why a Pulsoid will never wear out whilst other solenoids wear very rapidly (especially when pulsed).
Most other solenoid cores are made from three pieces of stainless steel friction welded together, during the welding process metal runs into the bore causing those close tolerances to become “contact” areas which suffer high wear (especially when pulsed).

3) Pulsoids due to their 'alloy' bore (alloy being a bearing material unlike stainless steel) and CNC billet construction would not produce magnetic particles, even if the plunger rubbed in the bore, because the bore not the plunger would wear and alloy is non-magnetic, so any particles would flow out of the outlet rather than be held in the magnetic field. However since the plunger does not rub on the bore no particles are produced and so Pulsoids DO NOT WEAR.

4) Pulsoids have a perfect magnetic circuit. This results in the plunger being held centrally in the bore of the Pulsoid, which means that when the plunger lifts off the seat and moves up the bore, there is 'no contact between the two parts therefore there is no wear (just as is the case with the levitating Japanese trains that are now being introduced, which were based on a British invention).
Most other solenoids have a less than perfect magnetic circuit, resulting in uneven magnetic forces acting on the plunger pulling it off centre and increasing the wear rate.

5) Pulsoids use a unique plunger seal materials which has the benefits of both the materials used by most other solenoid companies, without the disadvantages of either. It resists particle embedding and seals well, it is also elastic so it does not compact and it will never wear or tear.
Part of the reason it will not wear or tear is because unlike other solenoid companies we use a similar material (a hi tech thermo plastic) for our outlet seat. This means that both parts have similar molecular structures (spherical) so there is no wear.
Other solenoids on the other hand have a stainless steel seat that has a sharp molecular structure which tears into the softer seal materials used in the plungers.
There are 2 main types of material used for the plunger seals in other solenoids Viton & PTFE. PTFE is a good seal but it picks up dirt particles (that have got through the filter) and then they get permanently embedded in it, resulting in a leak and the need to service the solenoid. PTFE also has no elasticity so it gets compacted which increases the risk of solenoid failure due to an increased gap between core & plunger. The 'only good thing about PTFE is that it does resist wear & tear from pulsing.
Viton on the other hand resist particles embedding in it and seals well but because it is softer, it easily tears and wears when pulsed.

So to sum up, most (if not all) typical solenoids used by other companies, are made from the wrong materials, with the wrong tolerances and manufactured using the wrong techniques (all so they can keep them cheap). The wrong manufacturing techniques result in the plunger rubbing against the distorted bore (due to friction welding), generating magnetic particles that get held in the magnetic field around the plunger which aggravates wear and result in plunger seizures.
In contrast my Pulsoids revolutionary & unique design means the plunger is held centrally in the bore with large clearances preventing the plunger from rubbing on the bore and preventing it from wearing or seizing. Unlike other makes of solenoids, Pulsoids are made for superior 'quality' NOT superior 'profits'!!


Solenoid pulsing:

If you intend to have a large power increase from nitrous you'll end up "needing" a pulsed progressive system, or you may just "want" the extra safety of a pulsed system. Either way there is only one solenoid that is designed to be pulsed and that is our Pulsoid!!! Any claim from any other company that their solenoids are as suitable for pulsing as Pulsoids are is FALSE!!!

Sure ANY solenoid will respond to PWM (pulse width modulation) but there are many more factors to it than that, when you need TWO solenoids to work at the same rate, whilst working at different pressures (nitrous @ 1,000 psi - fuel at less than 100 psi). Consider bouncing a ball on Earth and another on the Moon and trying to make them move at the same time and the same speed. There is no way they would respond at the same rate due to the different forces they'd be subjected to. One would be up whilst the other was down on one cycle then on the next, one would be starting whilst the other is about to stop and so on and so on. Well that's about the same problem when trying to match a fuel solenoid and a Nitrous solenoid working at different pressures but being triggered by the same pulse.
Contrary to the false claims made by some 'experts' it IS NOT just a matter of getting a couple of solenoids out of a catalogue with the appropriate working pressures and suitable seal materials and saying they respond to PWM.

Although our fuel and nitrous Pulsoids 'look' the same (apart from colour), there are in actual fact 4 internal differences (in mechanical, magnetic and electric parts), that 'we' developed to make the two Pulsoids more 'matched' in their response rates than any other solenoids.


Solenoid servicing:

Why would any company offer solenoids that need to be serviced regularly when there are alternative materials available that would prevent the solenoids needing servicing?

We don't offer service kits because our Pulsoids will never need servicing and unless you do something accidently, they will last longer than you'll live (and that's a promise!!!). If you 'cooked' one due to incorrect use or wiring, we will strip, inspect and repair the unit, as required within 24 hours (for a small charge) and then extend your warranty. We do not think it's a good idea for anyone to take our responsibility for the construction of our Pulsoids.


Tested capabilities of the Pulsoids;

Consider the following;
1) I tested a number of Pulsoids at 1,500 psi connected to a Maximiser. I pulsed it for 15 minutes and then gave it 5 mins to recover whilst it was striped and inspected. The test was then repeated over and over until I got fed up inspecting for some sign of wear or some kind of failure. Every time it was inspected the seat materials were actually "polishing" each other and improving the surface finish. After 1/2 million operations I decided that I could give a lifetime warranty (meaning the life time of the original purchaser, although I've yet to have one returned that has worn to any degree through normal use), without fear of there ever being a claim.

2) When we first manufactured the Pulsoids we had a few independently tested to 9,000 psi by Kingston Medical Gases. They gave up at that point as there was no sign of a failure being imminent and it was far in excess of the required safety margins.

Bearing in mind that the most important part of a Nitrous system is/are the solenoid/s, I'm 100% confident that my claim that my systems are the best in the World stands!!!

I know which I'd rather fit to my engines.


Last edited by Noswizard on Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:14 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:40 pm 
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Here's a shot of what a pair of Pulsoids look like for anyone who visits here before seeing my products elsewhere on my site.

Image

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Last edited by Noswizard on Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:30 am 
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The maximum power we can achieve with a single Pulsoid is 400 bhp @ 16 Volts and 18 Amps.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:49 pm 
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Here are the flow paths through Pulsoids and generic solenoids.

The purple section changing to red is the route through the solenoid and the expansion chamber inside a Pulsoid

Image



The purple section changing to red is the route through the solenoid and the expansion chamber inside generic solenoids

Image


Plenty for the pro generic solenoid "experts" to think about if they ever open their eyes and their minds!!! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Compare solenoid designs and quality
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:22 am 
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"The maximum power we can achieve with a single Pulsoid is 400 bhp @ 16 Volts and 18 Amps."

That answered one of my questions. Thanks, and very impressive might I add.

I'm interested in the Pulsoids and very much so. I'm non-the-less intrigued by them. But...

There is one thing that baffles me to no end. In your "comparison video's" you demonstrate the 'generic' by using what is the equivalent to a purge solenoid--which flows about a 100 shot at best--plumbed to four (4) dry shot nozzles to show the flow characteristics with nothing said about bottle pressure. In turn, you show eight (8) Pulsoids, in full open form, all plumbed together but with no mention of bottle pressure here either.

Would it be possible for you take a 'generic' N2O solenoid capable of flowing a 400 shot of nitrous, plumb in the four (4) dry nozzles at 900 psi bottle pressure and show the test that way? In turn, do the same with a Pulsoid in place of the generic?

Would it be possible to demonstrate a test of amp draw while being pulsed? One of the problems with all the other solenoids on the market is the pulse action causing heat and added amp draw. If the Pulsoids could prove to be better flowing and at lower amps through out a given cycle, you've got a new buyer.

You already have me interested, now it's just selling me on the product.

In case you're wondering, I'm a very large distributor of nitrous solenoids in the U.S. so I'm always looking for a new advantage.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Compare solenoid designs and quality
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:54 am 
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Welcome to my forum Torque, nice choice of name by the way. ;)

Torque wrote:
"The maximum power we can achieve with a single Pulsoid is 400 bhp @ 16 Volts and 18 Amps."
That statement was made quite some time ago and because we're always striving for further improvements, I'm confident we could achieve even better results now, as we're now managing to see 350 hp @ just 12 Volts. At the time that statement was made it was only 250 hp @ 12 Volts and we're yet to see what flow we can now get at 16 Volts but my guess would be between 450 & 500 hp.

That answered one of my questions. Thanks, and very impressive might I add.
Pleased to hear you recognise the achievement that represents, as most people wouldn't.

I'm interested in the Pulsoids and very much so. I'm non-the-less intrigued by them. But...

There is one thing that baffles me to no end. In your "comparison video's" you demonstrate the 'generic' by using what is the equivalent to a purge solenoid--which flows about a 100 shot at best--plumbed to four (4) dry shot nozzles to show the flow characteristics with nothing said about bottle pressure. In turn, you show eight (8) Pulsoids, in full open form, all plumbed together but with no mention of bottle pressure here either.
First of all let me say that we have not actually posted what I would call "direct" comparison video's. All we have done, is carry out individual tests to achieve particular goals (which we have videoed) and then because we've been asked to do so, we've posted the results (of those I've had time to edit to a suitable size) on our site.
The 2 clips you have mentioned are in no way intended to be representations for comparison purposes and only intended to demonstrate what is contained in each individual clip.
Whilst the solenoid may be used for a purge on high power kits, it is the normal size used on low power kits and until a few years ago that was our main market. Therefore, if I was to do a direct comparison with our 150 hp Pulsoid, it would be fair to use that type of solenoid for that comparison. The ONLY reason we did that test program, was because a customer came to use with THAT kit fitted to his car, wanting us to convert it to one of our systems. We did back to back tests with both kits on the car and the difference was HUGE, so I decided to do some flow testing to see what that looked like. I was appalled at how bad the results were and I know from other tests that I've yet to edit and post, that the kinds of problems demonstrated in that clip apply to most other kits that use the same/similar component "designs".
With regard to bottle pressure AND "contents" - ALL our tests are carried out with the strictest attention to maintaining consistency in this matter, because anything less would defeat the object of the test and I don't like wasting my money by paying wages to prove nothing.
If the demonstration is a direct comparison between our products and any other we use one of 2 methods to achieve a FAIR and direct comparison;
1) Preheat a freshly filled bottle to in excess of the desired pressure (say 1,200 psi) and then allow it to settle down to 1,000 psi before carrying out the test and for each successive test we repeat the process.
2) We take a freshly filled bottle and add a nitrogen boost system to maintain constant delivery pressure.


Would it be possible for you take a 'generic' N2O solenoid capable of flowing a 400 shot of nitrous, plumb in the four (4) dry nozzles at 900 psi bottle pressure and show the test that way? In turn, do the same with a Pulsoid in place of the generic?
Yes it would and we may already have such a test on video, it's just that we have MANY hours of video tests on record and I seldom have the time to work on sifting through them and editing them, especially at this time of year when we're very busy dealing with our race customers requirements, however I can assure you the results are similar and our systems deliver much denser nitrous in a more continuous form than ANY other combination of components, which is why I designed them the way they are. ;)
I'll keep your request in mind and see what we can do to either find the previous recording or repeat the test program for you as soon as possible.
One factor to keep in mind however, is that it's not easy to appreciate the difference in density between 2 discharges, without using my UNIQUE technique and I only entrust such knowledge to a trusted circle of associates.


Would it be possible to demonstrate a test of amp draw while being pulsed?
Yes that's also possible but should not be required for the reasons given below.

One of the problems with all the other solenoids on the market is the pulse action causing heat and added amp draw. If the Pulsoids could prove to be better flowing and at lower amps through out a given cycle, you've got a new buyer.
You're right that heat increases Amp draw and the same applies to our Pulsoids, however there are 2 important differences between our Pulsoids and ALL other solenoids;
1) They are designed for MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY in all respects, including current draw. This means that for a given flow rate you require less Amps (as you've appreciated), therefore we already have a head start on ALL the rest.
2) By using less Amps they generate less heat over a given period of time, compared to other solenoids which use a higher current draw coil.
3) The Pulsoid body is machined from a BILLET of alloy and is therefore a SINGLE, SOLID piece of highly heat conductive metal. Both the internal core (where most heat concentrates) and the outer body are part of this highly heat conductive body and therefore any heat being generated in the coil can be/is conducted away, reducing the amount of increase in heat that would otherwise occur.

Here's a little story for you;
Some years ago, Mike Woods (President of NX) purchased a set of our Pulsoids and subjected them to some bench testing. He reported back to me saying that they performed EXTREMELY WELL but he was VERY CONCERNED because they got very hot. Obviously this showed his IGNORANCE of good solenoid design and I had to point out that ALL solenoid coils get hot but ONLY Pulsoids are designed to conduct that heat away from the coil, to reduce current draw, improve response and prevent coil failure.
He was so impressed by the performance and the design that he wanted to add my Pulsoids to his product range but because of the exchange rate and the greater manufacturing costs of the Pulsoids, we could not supply them at the price he wanted to pay. He then decided to manufacture A COPY of our Pulsoid but in so doing he TOTALLY MISSED ALL the most important aspects of the design and heat conductivity was just one of them. Whilst the base of their latest solenoid is alloy, it is in NO WAY "directly" connected to the heat source, because they still use a very thin SS core tube which screws to the alloy base and they use a loose fitting carbon fiber coil cover, BOTH of which are VERY POOR for heat conductivity.
That's always the case with A COPY, because the people doing the copying are not aware of the principles behind the ORIGINAL design.


You already have me interested, now it's just selling me on the product.
The best way to appreciate our Pulsoid design is to buy one/some and test them for yourself, then you know the results are genuine and to your satisfaction. :idea:

In case you're wondering, I'm a very large distributor of nitrous solenoids in the U.S. so I'm always looking for a new advantage.
You'd have an even BIGGER advantage if we supplied you with our REVO valves, how do you like the sound of ONE Amp?. :twisted:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2926

I think you'd also find this thread of interest as you seem to have a better understanding of the technical requirements of pulsing technology than most;http://forum.nitrous-advice.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2811

Feel free to drop me a PM with your web site details.

Thanks
My pleasure and I look forward to your reply.

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 Post subject: Re: Compare solenoid designs and quality
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:44 am 
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Thank you for a seemingly well thought out and professional reply.

Although I have never seen a U.S. kit with such a small solenoid pushing 4 fan nozzles, the fact that such is on the market doesn't surprise me at all. It's almost like anyone with 6 months experience and the money for marketing has "their own" N2O kits these days. I blame Ebay only businesses personally.

The Revo Valves look interesting but I take it they cannot be pulsed............merely high flowing?

Please understand that from my point of view as a distributor and from touring manufacturer and testing facilities, flow isn't a problem. The underlining problem is with pulsing the 'noids and having them act accordingly. Some to most 'noids either can't or won't respond to progressive controllers because of heat and amperage under the pulsing action. Otherwise, there is little compliant in the U.S. N2O solenoid market. A 'noid not pulsed but merely wide open throughout a 1/4 mile duration seems to wield no complaints. A 200 shot is a 200 shot regardless of the brand solenoid and jets used. Some companies have superior flowing jets and these may be smaller in size when compared to another brand but the fact remains that a 200 shot is a 200 shot when jetting in accordance to the manufacturers specifications.

What I'm after is solenoids that can be pulsed (either by voltage or by ground) quickly, efficiently, and using the least amount of amps.

Just so you know and since I supply, I have Mike Woods and Steve Johnson at my mobile phone disposal.


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 Post subject: Re: Compare solenoid designs and quality
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:15 pm 
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Torque wrote:
Thank you for a seemingly well thought out and professional reply.
I do my best. ;)

Although I have never seen a U.S. kit with such a small solenoid pushing 4 fan nozzles, the fact that such is on the market doesn't surprise me at all. It's almost like anyone with 6 months experience and the money for marketing has "their own" N2O kits these days. I blame Ebay only businesses personally.
Couldn't agree more, except that this system came directly from a UK NOS agent and it's a common combination here in the UK (especially on bikes), due to our much smaller car engines and additional power requirements.

The Revo Valves look interesting but I take it they cannot be pulsed............merely high flowing?
Might I suggest you have another read of the appropriate threads when you have the time, because you've missed the most important aspect of the Revo.
You've highlighted the fact that the majority of solenoids are unsuitable for pulsing and that's because they were never designed for that purpose (unlike the Pulsiods which were specifically designed for that purpose) but pulsing even the best solenoid in the world, has its limitation and causes a number of issues that we'd be better without.
The Revo on the other had has NONE of these limitations and NONE of the issues we'd be better without, plus it has a number of advantages that the use a conventional solenoid could never provide.

The reason nitrous technology moved to pulsing solenoids, was because it was a cheap method of gaining control over the nitrous delivery, that could still use the existing hardware. However this method of controlling the nitrous flow is far from the optimum, which is why I invented/designed an alternative that is - The Revo.

The Revo does NOT need to be pulsed to deliver progressive nitrous flow, the Revo should be thought of as an electrically controlled TAP that delivers infinitely fine/accurate nitrous and fuel flow control.


Please understand that from my point of view as a distributor and from touring manufacturer and testing facilities, flow isn't a problem.
Yes I appreciate that and I've also been closely involved with the main US nitrous companies, including NX & NOS, so I'm aware of their capabilities and in some instances I've been the one to make them aware of their limitations. ;)

The underlining problem is with pulsing the 'noids and having them act accordingly. Some to most 'noids either can't or won't respond to progressive controllers because of heat and amperage under the pulsing action.
Couldn't agree more.

Otherwise, there is little compliant in the U.S. N2O solenoid market. A 'noid not pulsed but merely wide open throughout a 1/4 mile duration seems to wield no complaints.
Whilst I accept that a "reasonable" percentage of US solenoids remain reliable for a "reasonable" length of time when used as a fixed hit, I can't "fully" agree with you on that, as I know of MANY examples of US solenoids that have failed under even the most basic use.

A 200 shot is a 200 shot regardless of the brand solenoid and jets used. Some companies have superior flowing jets and these may be smaller in size when compared to another brand but the fact remains that a 200 shot is a 200 shot when jetting in accordance to the manufacturers specifications.
I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that, although I do accept that SUPERFICIALLY that "appears" to be the case.
Optimising the flow through a solenoid (minimising turbulence and expansion) equates to more power from less nitrous and this results in less risk of detonation, consequently it is very important to use a solenoid that results in more power from less nitrous.
Our Pulsoids are designed for MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY in ALL respects, flow, density, minimal expansion, minimal current draw, maximum heat dispersion, etc, etc. NONE OF THIS can be said about ANY other solenoid in the world, even the latest NX copy (LOL) of my Pulsoid.


What I'm after is solenoids that can be pulsed (either by voltage or by ground) quickly, efficiently, and using the least amount of amps.
Your search is over as you found it - our Pulsoids.

Just so you know and since I supply, I have Mike Woods and Steve Johnson at my mobile phone disposal.
Please tell Mike I said hello the next time you talk to him and please tell him I'm still going to kick his ass sooner or later. ;)
Whilst I accept that NX has been the main driving force in US nitrous technology (through the companies they buy their products from, one of which was mine for a few years), I have no respect for Mike Woods personally, due to a number of unsavoury instances I've experienced with him.
I have no personal experience of Mike Johnson but I've read a number of his forum posts and I think the fact that the last company that employed him let him go soon after says it all. I've never read a single word from him that indicates he has the slightest understanding of nitrous system design or application, so if I were you I'd avoid him like the plague and you are free to tell him I said so.
You obviously understand the problems better than the 2 guys you've mentioned, so I hope we can make some progress towards demonstrating that with our products.



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 Post subject: Re: Compare solenoid designs and quality
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:18 am 
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Please forgive, I have "thumbed through" the rest of the board and haven't seen where the Revo valves are singled out in a discussion. I'm sure it's on here but I'm on borrowed time. I hope you don't mind me asking a few more questions although the information is already in "print" somewhere else. My apologies in advance.

I don't know why "metered flow" never occurred to me when I first looked at the Revo video's. I guess one would say it just flew over my head. I find myself caught up in these too. Very interesting concept to say the least. My concerns are:

How accurate is the metered flow at any given position?

Will two or more--or all--be accurate in comparison to one another?

What determines the valves position? Voltage? Amps? Resistance?

Let's say one wanted 8 Revo valves to use as a direct port system on a V8 engine. The goal being to use the valves not as a progressive system per se but in a staged manner. For the hell of it, let's say a 3 stage system. How would one achieve such?

What is the maximum flow "shot wise" achievable from a single Revo?

Thank you for your time.

Torque


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 Post subject: Re: Compare solenoid designs and quality
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:38 am 
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Torque wrote:
Please forgive, I have "thumbed through" the rest of the board and haven't seen where the Revo valves are singled out in a discussion.
I provided you a link in my original post to the main Revo discussion thread but here it is again and there are further links from that thread to others;
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2926
If any of the demo video clips fail to work, please let me know as I intend to replace all faulty links to ones from our own server now.


I'm sure it's on here but I'm on borrowed time. I hope you don't mind me asking a few more questions although the information is already in "print" somewhere else. My apologies in advance.
No problem and I appreciate that we have a MASS of information on here and I intend to condense as much of it as possible as soon as possible and present it in a more user friendly manner.

I don't know why "metered flow" never occurred to me when I first looked at the Revo video's. I guess one would say it just flew over my head. I find myself caught up in these too. Very interesting concept to say the least.
Glad you like it and believe me it is the MOST ADVANCE concept in the world today.

My concerns are:

How accurate is the metered flow at any given position?
FAR MORE accurate than ANY existing method and the variation in flow (as you should have seen from the video clips) is EXTREMELY fine/smooth

Will two or more--or all--be accurate in comparison to one another?
Mechanically not to the degree we'd like (not yet anyway, although we are still working on that) but we have developed an electronic control device to ensure they are EXACTLY the same.

What determines the valves position? Voltage? Amps? Resistance?
The Revo system uses PWM to control the Revo position/flow but at a much higher frequency than used for pulsing solenoids and as its only used to change the position rather than to open and close it repeatedly (as with solenoids), the electronic pulsing is NOT transmitted to the nitrous flow.

Let's say one wanted 8 Revo valves to use as a direct port system on a V8 engine. The goal being to use the valves not as a progressive system per se but in a staged manner. For the hell of it, let's say a 3 stage system. How would one achieve such?
The Revo valves will do EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED TO DO by the Max Extreme electronic controller. The Max Extreme could be set to deliver 3 different power levels (or even 6 if required) and set to jump from one level to the next at a given time in the run. However, such an arrangement would be a CRIMINAL WASTE of the most advantageous benefits the Revo offers, which is CONTINUOUSLY INCREASING power delivery which could OUTPERFORM blower power delivery, as the Max Extreme provides INFINITE & INFINITELY ACCURATE control over the power.
It is my expectation that the OPTIMUM arrangement for a Max Extreme/Revo system would be to set it to deliver a FLAT TORQUE CURVE at the HIGHEST LEVEL that traction permits in each gear and this will INEVITABLY result in the QUICKEST POSSIBLE ET from a given vehicle.
The Revo system is the ONLY power system with the ability to DELIVER such performance.
Although modern turbo management systems are trying to achieve that goal, they are unable to do so because of the inherent "issues" that the mechanics of a turbo suffer from. Blowers use relatively crude control methods and again are limited by the inherent "issues" that the mechanics dictate BUT a Revo nitrous system has NO such mechanical "issues" and therefore is capable of doing EXACTLY what is THEORETICALLY REQUIRED rather than ONLY being able to get close due to the mechanical "issues". :idea:


What is the maximum flow "shot wise" achievable from a single Revo?
The current units are limited to approx. 250 hp but we could manufacture them to flow as much as we wanted, how does 2,000 hp sound to you? :twisted:
It would actually be easier to make a higher flow unit but wouldn't be viable just yet, so 250 is the max right now.


Thank you for your time.
Pleasure, feel free to ask as many questions as you like but please remember the Revo is NOT yet generally available and is ONLY available under special strict conditions for the foreseeable future.

Torque

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 Post subject: Re: Compare solenoid designs and quality
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:46 am 
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Noswizard wrote:
What determines the valves position? Voltage? Amps? Resistance?
The Revo system uses PWM to control the Revo position/flow but at a much higher frequency than used for pulsing solenoids and as its only used to change the position rather than to open and close it repeatedly (as with solenoids), the electronic pulsing is NOT transmitted to the nitrous flow.

Let's say one wanted 8 Revo valves to use as a direct port system on a V8 engine. The goal being to use the valves not as a progressive system per se but in a staged manner. For the hell of it, let's say a 3 stage system. How would one achieve such?
The Revo valves will do EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED TO DO by the Max Extreme electronic controller. The Max Extreme could be set to deliver 3 different power levels (or even 6 if required) and set to jump from one level to the next at a given time in the run. However, such an arrangement would be a CRIMINAL WASTE of the most advantageous benefits the Revo offers, which is CONTINUOUSLY INCREASING power delivery which could OUTPERFORM blower power delivery, as the Max Extreme provides INFINITE & INFINITELY ACCURATE control over the power.
It is my expectation that the OPTIMUM arrangement for a Max Extreme/Revo system would be to set it to deliver a FLAT TORQUE CURVE at the HIGHEST LEVEL that traction permits in each gear and this will INEVITABLY result in the QUICKEST POSSIBLE ET from a given vehicle.
The Revo system is the ONLY power system with the ability to DELIVER such performance.
Although modern turbo management systems are trying to achieve that goal, they are unable to do so because of the inherent "issues" that the mechanics of a turbo suffer from. Blowers use relatively crude control methods and again are limited by the inherent "issues" that the mechanics dictate BUT a Revo nitrous system has NO such mechanical "issues" and therefore is capable of doing EXACTLY what is THEORETICALLY REQUIRED rather than ONLY being able to get close due to the mechanical "issues". :idea:


What is the maximum flow "shot wise" achievable from a single Revo?
The current units are limited to approx. 250 hp but we could manufacture them to flow as much as we wanted, how does 2,000 hp sound to you? :twisted:
It would actually be easier to make a higher flow unit but wouldn't be viable just yet, so 250 is the max right now.


*nods head*

So the Revo's receive signals similar or compared that of fuel injectors. Although still pulsed, they are far from "progression" but progressive all the same. The Max Extreme is the equivalent to a vehicles PCM with "injector drivers" but pulses the valves in milliseconds to determine a pre-programmed position or positions at a timed rate from closed to fully open. Similar to progressive without pulsing a magnetic plunger but merely opening or closing an actual valve which is unlike fuel injectors. As we say in America--I dig it!

However, the valve has to have some sort of device to actuate it. By what means is this done? An electric motor such as those found in Radio Controlled toy servo's? (which is what it appears as in the video's). Or do they have a pintle or disc to control flow?


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 Post subject: Re: Compare solenoid designs and quality
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:01 am 
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Torque wrote:
*nods head*

So the Revo's receive signals similar or compared that of fuel injectors.
The signal is SIMILAR in that its a Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) signal but it's at a much higher frequency that neither fuel injectors of Pulsoids could respond to over an adequate range.

Although still pulsed, they are far from "progression" but progressive all the same.
Fuel injectors are opened and closed (the same as our Pulsoids) by varying amounts to achieve progressive fuel delivery, whereas the Revo is NOT opened and closed by the pulses its just progressively opened or progressively closed.

The Max Extreme is the equivalent to a vehicles PCM with "injector drivers" but pulses the valves in milliseconds to determine a pre-programmed position or positions at a timed rate from closed to fully open. Similar to progressive without pulsing a magnetic plunger but merely opening or closing an actual valve which is unlike fuel injectors. As we say in America--I dig it!
Yes that's about the size of it although just to expand on one point, the Revo can not only be driven to open "fully" but it can be driven to open partially and held at that point if required and then either ramp open more or even open less, before open further. In other words you can make it do WHATEVER you want.
My ultimate design (which we are currently working on), will utilise closed loop control to ensure consistent mixture control, which will constantly self adjust the amount of Revo nitrous flow (up and down by PRECISE amounts) to match the available fuel delivery to maintain a constant Lambda reading.


However, the valve has to have some sort of device to actuate it. By what means is this done? An electric motor such as those found in Radio Controlled toy servo's? (which is what it appears as in the video's).
Yes that's the kind of thing and its an integral part of the Revo unit.

Or do they have a pintle or disc to control flow?
I can't divulge by what method we meter the flow at this time, as one of the reasons we have not yet released the Revo, is because we have not yet had time to apply for the patents involved.

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Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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