NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Nitrous Oxide ( NOS / N20 ) Forum
 
It is currently Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:03 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Recommendations at Higher Levels of Nitrous Use
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:37 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:10 am
Posts: 52
Location: Colorado
I have been using a modified Yamaha FJ1100 for drag racing for several years, and the last fee years have turned to one mile land speed racing (events are usually held on closed airport runways - no “prep work” accomplished on the “track” surface - just timing lights installed, etc.

I’ve sprayed up to 150 HP of nitrous on the engine and am looking to up that as high as 250 HP this year.

What recommendations do you have?

Here is what we have run successfully in the past (and in parentheses are planned changes for this year)

1349 cc big bore in XJR siamesed cylinder. (Plan to use Ross pistons - full skirt design and smoother piston top than other FJ/XJR pistons available - no “ridge” between the valve cut outs)

.0022” top ring gap
.0020” second ring gap

(Base gaskets stacked to put the piston .04-.05” in the hole. Head gasket is .040” - to give .090” quench — or lack of!) I think we previously set the piston even with the deck — will have to check with my engine builder/sponsor

Cylinder head
Stock sized intake valves
Stock sized exhaust valves (1mm oversized exhaust valves for this year)
Mild performance camshafts (slightly larger exhaust cam for this year)
Stock style shim over bucket valve train
Minor port cleanup
Combustion chambers opened up to bore size - unshroud valves and decrease compression

4-1 exhaust with open megaphone

C-16 race fuel (strongly considering Ignite 114 ethanol based race fuel based on Ransom Holbrook’s suggestions)

Fuel injection conversion utilizing Yamaha FJR throttle bodies (with Subaru WRX injectors) and Megasquirt MS3X ECU.

I’m running a dry nitrous setup utilizing WON bottle valve, 250 pulsoid, Y blocks, and discharge tubes.

The MS3X progressively controls the nitrous based on rear wheel speed (VSS sensor fitted to rear wheel) with 10 set points. The PWM frequency is adjustable (need to see what freqs are selectable on the pull down menu). I run the PWM output through a solid state relay to the pulsoid.


We’ve slowly evolved to this setup over the course of a few years as we address different short falls and make incremental improvements on previous successes, build on our own knowledge, and receive valued advice from trusted sources.

Thanks for any and all input!! (And hope this is not too much info to begin.... !)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Advertisement

Wizards of NOS Conact US
 Post subject: Re: Recommendations at Higher Levels of Nitrous Use
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:50 am 
Offline
Wizard
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 927
Location: Orlando, Fl in 'Merrrrica!
Trev is definitely the man to answer all of your questions, he knows bike racing more than anyone! I've never set up bikes so I'll be on the sidelines on this one.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommendations at Higher Levels of Nitrous Use
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:21 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 18688
Location: Doncaster
fj1289 wrote:
1349 cc big bore in XJR siamesed cylinder. (Plan to use Ross pistons - full skirt design and smoother piston top than other FJ/XJR pistons available - no “ridge” between the valve cut outs)
That all sounds fine but when possible, the MOST important nitrous specific piston feature is a taller crown (at the perimeter NOT the center), so there is more land between the rings. If possible, raising the cylinder block (by fitting a spacer underneath) or sourcing a taller block, is the best way to accommodate that feature.
The second most important feature is the compression ratio, which benefits from being lower than would otherwise be the case.


.0022” top ring gap
.0020” second ring gap
I can't give you actual figures but the guide is as follows;
1) Bigger than stock is essential
2) Too big is better than too little
3) Too much will have negligible negative effect


(Base gaskets stacked to put the piston .04-.05” in the hole. Head gasket is .040” - to give .090” quench — or lack of!) I think we previously set the piston even with the deck — will have to check with my engine builder/sponsor
With that being the case, you could fit a taller piston, as a stronger ring pack is more important than having no squish.

Cylinder head
Stock sized intake valves
Stock sized exhaust valves (1mm oversized exhaust valves for this year)
Mild performance camshafts (slightly larger exhaust cam for this year)
Stock style shim over bucket valve train
Minor port cleanup
Combustion chambers opened up to bore size - unshroud valves and decrease compression
Wise improvements

4-1 exhaust with open megaphone

C-16 race fuel (strongly considering Ignite 114 ethanol based race fuel based on Ransom Holbrook’s suggestions)
Ransom obviously knows how to get the job done, so following his advice is a must.

Fuel injection conversion utilizing Yamaha FJR throttle bodies (with Subaru WRX injectors) and Megasquirt MS3X ECU.

I’m running a dry nitrous setup utilizing WON bottle valve, 250 pulsoid, Y blocks, and discharge tubes.
Please post some pics of the installation, especially showing the Y-Blocks and pipework.

The MS3X progressively controls the nitrous based on rear wheel speed (VSS sensor fitted to rear wheel) with 10 set points. The PWM frequency is adjustable (need to see what freqs are selectable on the pull down menu). I run the PWM output through a solid state relay to the pulsoid.

We’ve slowly evolved to this setup over the course of a few years as we address different short falls and make incremental improvements on previous successes, build on our own knowledge, and receive valued advice from trusted sources.

Thanks for any and all input!! (And hope this is not too much info to begin.... !)
No problem.


_________________
Regards

Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommendations at Higher Levels of Nitrous Use
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:04 pm 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:10 am
Posts: 52
Location: Colorado
Trying to post pics of the system - need to figure out how edit the size of them. Traveling today so should have the down time.

Question: can I mount the first Y block directly to the pulsoid? Or is it better to have a short run of stainless tube first?

I’m moving things around in the middle of the bike to make room for a larger nitrous bottle, as well as mounting it in the subframe vice the swingarm to make bottle changes easier and we can fabricate a full length fairing for under the bike. (Right now we have to drop the bottle out of the bottom of the swingarm for bottle swaps.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommendations at Higher Levels of Nitrous Use
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:20 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 18688
Location: Doncaster
fj1289 wrote:
Trying to post pics of the system - need to figure out how edit the size of them. Traveling today so should have the down time.
Good luck with that.

Question: can I mount the first Y block directly to the pulsoid? Or is it better to have a short run of stainless tube first?
A short run of SS tube (1" or there abouts) is best, so you can easily access the metering jet.

_________________
Regards

Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommendations at Higher Levels of Nitrous Use
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:43 am 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:10 am
Posts: 52
Location: Colorado
Trying pics again...the perspective “jumps around” as I try to get good angles on the system...


Attachments:
5F593968-C90B-4A78-B829-A49DE9BC2AEC.jpeg
5F593968-C90B-4A78-B829-A49DE9BC2AEC.jpeg [ 97.72 KiB | Viewed 422 times ]
BE05DC25-4A02-4496-8556-174A80F68060.jpeg
BE05DC25-4A02-4496-8556-174A80F68060.jpeg [ 135.19 KiB | Viewed 422 times ]
E13D2456-14BA-46F1-90AB-D10FE53F5645.jpeg
E13D2456-14BA-46F1-90AB-D10FE53F5645.jpeg [ 139.58 KiB | Viewed 422 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommendations at Higher Levels of Nitrous Use
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:45 am 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:10 am
Posts: 52
Location: Colorado
And the last picture


Attachments:
5AF72EE1-593C-43B6-AC35-DFDE97C0A1DF.jpeg
5AF72EE1-593C-43B6-AC35-DFDE97C0A1DF.jpeg [ 117.63 KiB | Viewed 422 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommendations at Higher Levels of Nitrous Use
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:56 am 
Offline
Learner

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:10 am
Posts: 52
Location: Colorado
For this year the K&N filters will be replaced by short velocity stacks.

The pulsoid will probably be mounted vertically with a 90 degree turn in the pipes going to the second set of y-blocks. This will be to move the pulsoid forward to make room for a 10 pound nitrous bottle mounted to the rear sub frame and extending down forward of the tire - - similar placement to the swing arm mounted 5 pound bottle, just mounted about 4 inches (100 mm) or so higher. At the same time moving the battery up front where the headlight used to be and moving the ECU into the tail where the battery was. Don’t think we will use more than 4 pounds in a run, but it should help keep pressures more constant.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommendations at Higher Levels of Nitrous Use
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:07 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 18688
Location: Doncaster
fj1289 wrote:
For this year the K&N filters will be replaced by short velocity stacks.

The pulsoid will probably be mounted vertically with a 90 degree turn in the pipes going to the second set of y-blocks.
That may produce an improvement in the distribution, because as it is there is a possibility of cylinder 1 & 4 getting more than 2 & 3 but you'll have to make sure that you follow these instructions to the letter to be sure;
http://www.noswizard.com/pdf/optimum_di ... yblock.pdf

This will be to move the pulsoid forward to make room for a 10 pound nitrous bottle mounted to the rear sub frame and extending down forward of the tire - - similar placement to the swing arm mounted 5 pound bottle, just mounted about 4 inches (100 mm) or so higher. At the same time moving the battery up front where the headlight used to be and moving the ECU into the tail where the battery was. Don’t think we will use more than 4 pounds in a run, but it should help keep pressures more constant.
Yes it should. If you only want to maintain pressure, nitrogen boost would be a lighter and more definite option.
It would also almost certainly be easier to mount to the bike. Having said that I've just realised that if you will actually USE 4 lbs you'd NEED a 10 lb bottle to have enough LIQUID available.
:idea:

_________________
Regards

Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

  • Advertisement
Wizards of NOS Sparkplugs
Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits