NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Which of these flow paths is the best?

All flow is from left to right.

FLOW PATH 1



FLOW PATH 2



FLOW PATH 3



FLOW PATH 4



FLOW PATH 5



Although the answer to this should be obvious PLEASE would as many people as possible post a response.

I would say number 2 because it has the least sharp turns and it flows down all the way

Hi

Me too for number 2...

Two reasons..

Shortest length

Least bends

But I am probably wrong but would like to know why as I enjoy learning things...although at my age I tend to forget them fairly quickly lol

All the best Brett

I believe example 2 has the best flow because it flows downwards from a high starting point using gravity to increase the flow and keep it consistent ending at a low point.

Example 5 is also suspect,

Example 5 has a big initials increase in gradient going up but another steep gradient going down.

I'd go for #2

As Brett says, shortest length, least changes of direction.

And where there are changes of direction, then the radii are far wider (ie no 'sharp' direction change). Surely this would cause less 'phase change', compared with (certainly) 3 & 4?

Then again I'm new to this so I could be talking out of my rear end!



That said, when it comes to fluid dynamics, quite often a large radius bend can cause an increase in boundary layer depth leading to a reduction in flow, so, possibly, #1 is better.

Certainly with high performance wings what you often find are 'vortex generators' that are designed to 're-energise' the boundary layer. This results in increased flow and less drag. However, if I've learnt anything on this forum, it's that liquid nitrous, while a fluid, tends to behave in an 'odd' way (presumably because it 'wants' to phase change). So anything designed to re-energise boundary layer flow would tend to cause phase change and exacerbate the problem!

Hi

Worst ...as a guess...number 3...too many 90 degree angles....I cannot imagine any liquid/gas liking doing that....maybe

All the best Brett

Ditto.

Path 3 is the worst

OK guys you're obviously right on all counts.

Now no doubt you're wondering why I put such a simple question in the tech section, well I'll tell you that in my next post but for now I have one more question.

Would it make any difference what media was flowing through these flow paths?

For example water, peas, air, sand, exhaust gases, liquid nitrogen.

Would the worst still be the worst and the best the best?

Keep up the good work guys.

in say that fundamentally, the worst would still be worst and vice versa, regardless of what is flowing through the pipe.

fir nitrous: (best to worst in order) 2 - 1 - 5 - 4 - 3

OBVIOUSLY you are all correct.

So why is it so many nitrous 'experts' either don't undertsand this FACT or they choose to ignore it?

Flow path 1 represents a simple exhaust system

Flow path 2 represents a simple induction system

Flow path 3 is a representation of a conventional generic nitrous system

Flow path 4 represent the flow path of our current basic nitrous system

Flow path 5 is a representation of what the flow path will be with a Revo and our latest Pro series system

If you add one more 90 degree bend to 5 you have the flow path of our current Pro series systems with a Pulsoid.

Now can anyone explain to me WHY, exhaust manufacturers and induction system manufacturers design their products to have the easiest flow paths, yet even Pro Mod spec nitrous kits (made by 'expert' nitrous companies), are designed WITHOUT even the slightest consideration being given to the flow characteristics and then they wonder why they can't keep up with blown cars!!!!!

I'd suspect that cryogenic liquids produce even more complicated results as sharp turns and subsequent pressure drops not only impede flow but fundamentally change the characteristics of the medium - usually rapidly changing from a liquid to a gas. One of the basic assertions one must make when calculating fluid dynamics is whether the medium is compressible or not. Obviously with N2O this isn't an easy question to answer. The same will apply to looking at viscosity. I'd guess that gaseous nitrous has effectively none and that liquid has sufficient that it has to be taken into account whenever the flow encounters an obstacle. The whole prospect of modeling it gives me cold sweats. Also cfd isn't a closed book - it's anything but solved. This is why the best results will come from the guy who's been out there and spent hour after trying things and learning from experience. I'd suspect that computer modeling and the underlying maths will catch up in the next 15 years though.

Couldn't agree more Dave.

BTW, I wanted as many responses as possible, to show how OBVIOUS the answer is and to show that even my apprentices know more about nitrous system design than the Pro generic kit brigade, even the so called experts!!!!

I reckon 90 degree bends look something like this:


excuse the terrible scrible

That's close enough for me Dave, now compare that to the flow through a straight pipe and you can see that the fewer tight bends the system has the better the flow in volume and density.

If you was a plumber in a house and using water how would you think you should install pipes :-) well its way i look at it and i always think of a 90 bend as a wall and if it gose up hill an down an airlock no idea if thats right but seams to make sence to me

and fastest point from A 2 B is a straight line , hair pin bend ya need megga breaks but a big nice sweeping bend how much faster ya go round that and with such ease

dont know may be im just to simple

That's exactly how it is for nitrous and the "air lock" issue is also an applicable matter but that's a really high end issue that I've kept in reserve for when/if the rest catch up.

Trev im lost as i dont like to be in this section but is it really that simple ??

Yep Tezz, it is that simple!!!

I'm no better educated or smarter than the average guy, so it has to be simple for me to be able to understand it.

Just a shame so many people are of less than average inteligence, otherwise everyone would be able to understand it, with it being that simple and my job would be much easier.

Hey Trev, How is it going. Just wanted you to know I get it and this is why your system are design far better than any other.
Rito

Actually
Its all down to the turbulence posed by circumferential velocities generated in the medium due to accelaration caused by changes in the mechanical structure of the flow line in relation to the resistance of the medium itself to change form in relation to the viscosity index of the medium in relation to that of water at sea level.

In other words

LISTEN TO TREV

There I was trying to understand that statement right up to your last sentance.



Good bringing together of some choice words there Perry.

On the air lock issue there's more to it in a nitrous system than you've figured out yet.

Yep
Water systems are easier to get airlocks out of

With regard to the nitrous side..I'm feelin' ya dawg