NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

I hear what you're saying on the support. The thru wall at the rear of the rail is plenty of support there. I would need to build a support for the front and mount it to the blowoff support plate at the front of the plenum. I had thought of that before, but it was going to take more fab time than I had at the time. As it was, I had one day to spare. Alas, I ended up not making the race event anyway due to a kidney stone that hit me the morning of the event.

I do like the idea of doing systems for each bank. My first thought is, mounting the solenoids over the middle of the plenum won't work. The bulge doesn't leave enough room for that many pairs of solenoids, unless I'm not picturing the mounting of them in my head correctly. But, once the spider mess is out of the way? Hmmm. What are the dimensions of the pulsoids?

Trev. I just read the post with your explanation of the crossfire system. Interesting indeed. Let me chew on it awhile. I want to read more of your book too.

The discharges of the nitrous nozzles I made are similar to the setup used by Ede******. Fuel fans at a downward angle into the stream of nitrous which is discharging straight down the runner.

I do greatly appreciate all your time, interest, comments and suggestions.
Double Thanks!

Mounting 1 pr of Pulsoids per bank is possible but less than ideal.

Mounting 2 prs per bank may work OK but then 1 would be feeding 2 cylinders while the other would be feeding just 1 cylinder, which could be a bit tricky to balance up.

It is possible (and you'll know better than I possibly could) that you do not have enough room for the 3 pairs of Pulsoids mounted above the plenum, in which case that would either need allowing for or that option is out the window.
Pulsoids are approx 2.5" long by 1.125" od.

That leaves the pair of Pulsoids per cylinder option (the same as Johnny [racer704] has) and obviously that is the best system for the 'ultimate' solution anyway.

Diameter of the Pulsoids are close to a 1inch and about 3 inches long. You have got plenty of places to mount themI would mount them of the edge of the plenum top with a bracket.

This thread explains the Crossfire concept;

http://www.forum.nitrous-advice.com/why ... -t689.html

Regards

I'm actually warming up to the idea of the 3 pairs over the middle idea. I need to do some measuring. What kind of mounting angles are acceptable for the solenoids? What length is acceptable for feed lines after the solenoid?

I agree, the 2 pairs per side is out.

I'm thinking that the front most pair of solenoids may require quite a bit longer lines after the solenoids than the other pairs. In fact, I'm thinking the pair length may progress from longest for the 2 front pairs to shortest for the 2 back pairs. Do you see any problem with that?

Johnny B.!!! Niiice.

Long pipe lengths are a problem on 'conventional' kits but they can be beneficial (to a degree) with our advanced systems, because longer pipes damp out the nitrous pulses to the engine due to our unique metering jet location.
This still leaves a major concern in both cases over the differential between fuel and nitrous delivery times causing lean backfires, although once again we have the advantage, because this is less of a concern with even our basic systems, due again to our unique metering jet location. However even if the pipes were so long they caused a problem we can still resolve the issue (no matter what the degree), with some electronic wizardry from the Max Extreme, because it has the unique ability to delay the nitrous delivery ONLY to match EXACTLY the fuel delivery time, ENSURING that there's NO CHANCE of a lean hit backfire.

Consequently I'd make the 2 longest delivery pipes as short as possible and then make the 4 remaining ones the same length, dialing out any fuel lag using the Max Extreme.

To keep the pipes as short as possible I'd suggest that a single outlet pipe (from each Pulsoid) was run into the top of the manifold (through a small bulkhead fitting) to feed an 'internal' 'Y' piece that had a pair of our unique discharge tubes feeding a pair of intake runners, one on each bank.

Along the lines of this system we are currently constructing for another of your countrymen for his V12 Lambourghini;

http://www.forum.nitrous-advice.com/mos ... t3114.html

I'm thinking you like this option even more now.

Regards

Thanks Donnie I am quite proud of that set up as I have over 300 hundred hours in it.

If I lived closer I would be happy to help you and if you like you can call me anytime if you need help.I have alot of experiance with Trev,s products as I am sure he will agree.

That is exactly how I've started picturing it. Excellent tip on the tube lengths. I'll need to make sure the internal plumbing is secured well. As Johnny stated earlier, the inside of an intake plenum can be pretty wild. I need to struggle with the mounting of the solenoids now. Time to get the ruler out.

300 hours? That's all? You should feel fortunate. It looks great! I hope you turn the world upside down with it.

The 300 hours Johnny is talking about is JUST in arranging the nitrous components not the whole engine.

We're very aware of the requirements for securing manifold internals and you'd do well to guess how Johnny's internals look, although the Lambourghini system should give you a clue


All sounds good to me.
We have a growing number of high end customers using our UNIQUE internal Pro systems with only one minor issue so far and we've resolved that, so you should be fine with such a system.

Regards

That's what I was assuming. As my fuel rail support proves, often a quick solution is not the best appearing. My intake design, not counting the throttle body, took me over a year to complete. I'm a slow worker and I can appreciate the visionary energy and time put into a person's 'work of art'.

I wish I could scroll to check out the whole picture.

Donnie,

Hover your mouse over the picture and then use your arrow keys to navigate up, down, left or right.

Alternatively use the save as feature and download it to open in a suitable program on your computer.

Regards

Thanks bdyer for the advice on the a/f ratios. I've found that, at converter stall the engine likes 5.77 to 1. It netted me about 100 more rpm at stall. I tried different advances and it wants 30 to 35 degrees at stall, with little difference between the two.

Have you had any more thoughts on the new nitrous layout we've discussed?

Regards

Hi Trev. I'm going to finish tuning in the present setup so I can see if there will be any advantage to doing a major system change. I'm sure I will not be happy with the time slip and will want to make the change.

So far, Ive been working on the fuel VE table off the nitrous, at a lowered boost level. The aux fuel rail is giving me a delay from activation to actual fuel feed that I need to cover with the point that the electronic injectors are cut back. A little timing overlap. After I'm happy with the mixture through that transition point, I'll throw some nitrous at it and see what I have. I keep you guys posted on the progress.

Donnie how did your season end up sir? I hope better then ares did as we had so many mech. problems that I dont want to bore you with all the details.I am very interested in your ending and what you are going to do over the off season.Best of luck sir.

Hi Johnny. I am astonished with the things I've learned about the car since my last post here. It's a long story and I want to tell it all to you. I've been writing what I would almost call a diary about my fueling on a Buick BB. It is much easier for me to paste a link to it. It is a lot of typing.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/alcoho ... ivery.html

Let me know what you think.

It was a good read and as I think I can even help you more but it would be easier for us to talkat some point in time and discus it all. I am here if you need me sir.

I thought I would let the cat out of the bag on this site first. You all have been so helpful. Without going into too much boring detail, I'll go over the weekend that the tuneup came together. A few simple observations first.

This engine craves fuel. I'm presently at a mixture strength of 4.5 to one and I'm toying with the idea of increasing it. But first, I need to increase the size of the mechanical injector nozzles. I'm throwing all I presently have at it. Alcohol is an amazing fuel.
The present launch stradegy is going WOT on the second amber (from a staging rpm of 2300 rpm) and releasing the transbrake on the third amber. At the launch, the nitrous brings the boost to 16 psi @ 4654 rpm in about .8 seconds.
The nitrous is activated upon going WOT as long as rpm is at or above 2440 rpm and map is at or above 98 kPa.

The reason why the rpm is not higher by 16 psi is because the torque converter is tight. Stall is 2400 @ 0 boost.
The mixture during nitrous activation maintains 4.5 to one. After nitrous shut down at 16 psi, and as rpm increases, mixture strength decreases to 4.76 by shift point.

The main problem I have been fighting has been a lean spike as the nitrous turns off and the aux fuel comes on. I don't remember if I'd already discussed it, but I've added an auxiliary fuel rail inside the plenum of the intake with mechanical injector nozzles pointing down each intake runner. The aux fuel was first setup to activate at 16 psi.

So, the nitrous turns off at 16 psi and the aux fuel turns on at 16 psi also.

I started about solving this problem by tuning the systems separately to try and isolate which system was causing the most problem and it also made it easier to come to a solution for each system without another system muddying the pond.