NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

Trev,

I have enjoyed reading everyones post on various direct ports, methanol setups etc. I was directed to this website from Rito and have followed his thread on another forum.

I currently have a E46 M3 and I am wanting to switch from a single wet fogger to direct port set up with methanol. I have 6 TB's with 6 individual runners in the air box ( I know a lot of people know this). I would prefer a nice set up, similar to Rito's, however with space constraints under the hood, will have to be configured a little differently.

I am wanting to go to maybe a 300 shot (100shot from each solenoid) with methanol. What is the best way to achieve these requirements?

Thanks again.

Shawn

Thanks for the quick email.

I currently run 150 shot through my K&N 69, just right after the MAF, however, it was very hard to reach ideal distribution through out all cylinders.

I have most of the supporting mods, Euro Headers, tuned from a speciality tuner (not speciality here, but you know what I mean), but just shy of a new clutch.

I am trying to figure out how to upload the pictures

Here is the air box from the BMW website.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=11&fg=40

I read that previous thread, however, how would E85 help? Would a 50 Meth/ 50 water mixture from Snow Performance not be ideal?

I see what you mean about limited space, although the front 4 cylinders look to be OK on that score.

I'll need more pics or better still I'd better see if I can find one of these locally but for now I'm off to Malta for just over a week, so I won't be able to do anything further till I return.

Back to you ASAP.

Regards

No problem--I just have to figure out how to increase the picture size. Is there an alternative email address? That way I can send 9 or 10 pictures to him.

Just sent a lot of pictures with measurements, and if Trev needs more with different measurements, he can send me via my email.

I can even go a step further and send him the air collector.

Shawn

Awesome!

I can't wait to see what Trev cooks up for you.

The best part is, you have a ton of technical support here when you start to tune it.

This site seems to have some nice info on the stock plenum.
http://e46m3performance.com/tech/airbox/index.htm

No real use for fitting but does a good job of pointing out it's short comings.

Trev,
I am not sure if this will help but below is a few photos of the E46 engine. They are various setups so hopefully you will get and idea from the photos of what will actually work.

Rito

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Me ... toId=41608

http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto ... to_08.html

http://www.worldcarfans.com/7060418.001 ... e46-bmw-m3

http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredvehicl ... to_04.html

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=359200

Thanks for those Rito (BTW how long before you're using nitrous again?)

Now if it was like this pic;
http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto ... to_08.html

we'd have no trouble fitting the system but unfortunately it's like this;
http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredvehicl ... to_04.html

with the back 2 cylinder tucked under the body work!!!

Your last link almost did it!!!

What I need is close up shots of pics 5 & 6 like pic 7 is of the other side.
If he taken pics of the front, back and induction side, the same as he has of the exhaust side, then that would have been PERFECT!!!!

Would you mind asking him if he took the close up pics I need and if so would he mind sending them to me please?

Thanks again.

No problem. i also can start a thread on the bmw forum with the same car asking for someone to post these photos to give you an idea on how you can set it up.
One thing that might be helpful but will be up to the owner. If he removed that plastic covering that's located where you mention it might just do the trick. most people whom start moding their car that I seen usually removes this anyway. But again this is up to the owner.

As for me using nitrous. I never really stopped. I am putting in a new motor which I had custom built. Forged rods and pistons with lower compression and custom ported and polished head with supertech valve springs and titanium retainers. Motor is done and shipped to BMW shop which today they start the engine swap. Nitrous going back on and turbo is in place. After we are done there it's off for a complete tune. Nitrous and turbo will be used.
I will start another thread all about it but just wanted to give you an update since you asked.

Rito

Thanks for that Rito and thanks also for the update on your project, I'll look forward to hearing all about it and hearing what results you achieve.

Regards

The space under the air box will be really difficult. Every intake stack has something under it (starter, various other components). So it would be a complete pain to figure out the space under there.

I would rather keep the cabin air filter box in tact.

I am thinking out loud, but what if I can epoxy the pulsoids to the side of the air box where the j boot connects too? This way we can route the lines up and down (90 degree) to the individual throttle bodies and use any Y block that you recommend.

Here is an idea for you and Trev correct me if it can not be done. What i would suggest ccould work but it's up to the owner which it is basically the same thing OCDM3 said but using brackes. I don't know how thick the intake manifold would be but if you could tap the manifolds using brackes toward the driver side placing the pulsoids directly center from the drive side facing the injectors and run the nylon lines at angles but as straight like as possible. Since the cross fire injectors have to be tapped you could remove the air ducts temperaryly to do this and replace them once install is done. There should be just enough space to run the crossfire injectors with nylon lines right under the thing. The plumbing would still be under 12 inches is sorted correctly. If i had auto cad I could do it for you to give you an idea but i don't LOL.
Trev have your guy draw this up and see how it looks. I believe it will still be as effient but I am not the expert Trev you are. Let me know what you think.

Rito

Trev,

From my experience removing one of these intakes, there isn't enough room under the manifold for pulsoids. They have literally formed the plenum against the block and ancileries like the electronic throttle actuator.(Drive by wire mechanism)

This is a tough package to work on space wise....

There is the MZ3, and MZ4 that use this engine, but the space in the engine bay is different.

Trev,
I also found this of the engine bay with everything removed. Photos are starting on post #35

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... 609&page=2

Thanks folks for helping out! Rito, this the same picture I sent to Trevor via email

LOL, Seems we are thinking the same thing.

this is how you guys saying right? sorry for the paint drawing im not good on paint

Trev,
I have been looking closer at the M3 setup with 6 TB injectors and it would appear to me this is technically not a Direct port setup. I say this because of the locations of the injectors and TB. On conventional Direct port usually the plumbing is behind the TB or carburator which this type setup is kind of tricky since it would still be dependent on the TB opening like a single injection would. Tell me your thoughts because this have been on my mine after looking closer at the setup.
I still believe having it plumbed in the intake manifold close to the TB would be idle either way.

Rito

Can you guys tell me if this holds true about nitrous tanks. Which fuel pump would be ideal for my set up?

typical engine uses 0.5 pounds of fuel (gasoline) per hour to make each horsepower. Gasoline weighs in at approximately 6 pounds per gallon. To calculate fuel consumption let me show you by example. Lets say we have a 400 HP engine (or nitrous system) and we will use the following formula:

400 HP X 0.5__ X 1 gal = 33 GPH
HP per hour 6 lb.
If you installed a pump rated at 33 GPH on a 400 HP Nitrous system the engine would experience severe fuel starvation and your wallet would cringe in "empty" pain! WHY?

There are several reasons ... However, the main reason is the way that pumps are rated. Fuel pumps are rated at "zero" pressure (also known as "free flow"). Rating a pump at zero pressure is useless because the pump will never be at zero pressure when it is operating in the vehicle. As fuel pressure increases, the fuel pump slows down and fuel output is reduced. If you use a standard "dead-head" type regulator, the pump may be forced to produce as much as 25 PSI. At 25 PSI, the actual output GPH of the pump is much less than at "free flow".

You have lost me on this one.
Anyway you can upgrade your fuel pump to a walbro and it should be fine.

You are correct with your statement.

The good news is that quality pumps will have a more realistic output curve, which is a good place to start. What also needs to be considered, is that the pump is just 1 component in system, and each component has an effect on flow. For example, the pickup tube and type of filter used before the pump will affect flow, as well as the hose and filtration after the pump. Fittings, distribution blocks, bends in hose, and gravity will also effect flow.

The best thing you can do is flow test the assembled system as it will be used on the car.

As for your choice of pump, I'm sure a few others will have a more informed choice that I, my experience is mostly with Walbro 255L/hr pumps which work fine, but you need to keep a spare around.

Right guys here's what you've been waiting for and after considering all the possible options (of which there are very few that might work), we have settled on this arrangement.
It may look similar to the system we did for Rito but there are a number of factors that are different to accommodate the minimal clearance available over the back 2 cylinders.