NITROUS OXIDE ( nos / n2o ) advice forum

For general REVO info please read;

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TECH REVO INFO

The long awaited nitrous REVOLUTION start here, with a whole new concept in progressive flow control technology taking nitrous injection into the 21st century.
WON are extremely proud to announce the official launch of ‘The REVO’ system!

Most people appreciate that power is nothing without control and yet nitrous has lacked any ‘real’ control for the past 30 years and in part it’s this lack of control that has seen forced induction vehicles eclipse nitrous vehicles in recent years.
However, that has all started to change now, thanks to the endeavours of the WON team as total control is now achievable due to a revolution in technical design, which has resulted in the birth of the REVO concept.

The REVO – Max Extreme system is the result of merging revolutionary advanced mechanical design & engineering, with advanced electronic control and topped off by the ultimate understanding of advanced flow dynamics, that was ESSENTIAL to make the mechanics and electronics work in practice, as they did in theory.

The REVO is a SMOOTH progressive delivery system which can;

• Start delivering flow (fuel & nitrous) from as little as 1% upwards and increase progressively and smoooothly.

• Start delivering flow (fuel & nitrous) from as much as 100% and progressively decrease.

• Increase or decrease power from the start.

• Increase and/or decrease the flow progressively a number of times during a run.

• Change power at any desired rate smoooothly, without any steps, pulses or limitations.

• Absolutely instantaneous fuel AND nitrous delivery.

• Change power instantly (stepped) if required, although that somewhat defeats the object.

• Electronically adjust the mixture ACCURATELY prior to a run

• Actively adjust the mixture during a run, to whatever ratio is desired for different parts of the run, using closed loop lambda control.

REVO units also offer all of the benefits of solenoids and air noids, WITHOUT any of the limitations of either. Should you need more reasons to order the REVOs, the following is a list of advantageous features they offer;

• Low current load - approx. 1 Amp per unit.

• Light weight - approx. 120 grams (4 oz) per unit.

• Compact size – approx. 70mm x 40mm x 15mm.

• Immense power to weight ratio – REVO units are available in 250 HP & 500 HP versions, in the same size, weight and current draw.

• 1,000 HP X10 version will be available in the middle of 2010

• Anything between Zero to full flow and/or full flow to zero smoooothly

• Absolutely instantaneous fuel and nitrous delivery.

• Hardware design simplicity for maximum reliability.

• Advanced and intensively tested electronic hardware and software, proven to be 100% reliable.

The REVO system is the most advanced nitrous system in the world, offering the advantages of multi-staged kits AND pulsed progressive systems, WITHOUT any of the limitations or problems associated with either.

A REVO system;

• Does NOT need to be external purged prior to activation as it benefits from a self priming system.

• Does NOT need high Amp power supplies (battery, wiring, switches, relays, etc.), as with solenoids.

• Does NOT need an additional air supply and associated control components, as with air noids.

• Does NOT need nitrogen boost to prevent power loss due to bottle pressure drop.
• Does NOT need the fuel system priming.

• Does NOT suffer from any lag in either fuel or nitrous delivery.

• Does NOT suffer from any steps in the power delivery (as with staged kits).

• Does NOT suffer from a lack of power gain between activation of stages.

• Does NOT suffer from pulses of nitrous flow.

• Does NOT suffer from pulses of nitrous flow being mismatched to the fuel pulses.

• Does NOT suffer from pulsing adversely affecting the fuel system.

• Does NOT suffer from solenoid failures as a consequence of pulsing.

• Does NOT subject the engine to excessive loads.

• Does NOT need excessive timing retard, as with staged and pulsed kits.

• Does NOT suffer loss in power between pulses due to excessive retard that covers cycles without nitrous delivery.

• Does NOT cause traction problems, because it delivers the ULTIMATE in control.


In summary;
TOTAL CONTROL of smooooth "genuine" power resulting in NO LIMITS performance.


The REVO delivers ‘ACTUAL’ power not short duration bursts of high power of the "CHOPPED UP" kind delivered by pulsed systems. It is kinder to the engine/transmission and allows the engine to make far more power and deliver it in an even more useable manner.

To explain the term ‘ACTUAL’ in comparison with "CHOPPED UP", let me give you an example.
Let's say you have jets that deliver 500 hp and you want to launch with 100 hp, with a pulsed system you will have to pulse the system at a 20% duration meaning that 20% of the time the engine will be hit with 500 hp and 80% of the time it won’t receive anything. This less than ideal delivery method is how a well designed progressive system works, so a badly designed system could be worse. The hammer effect happens approximately 35 times per second with a WON pulsed system but using most other systems, it can occur as few as 10 times per second and the fewer the times it pulses per second, the bigger the hammer blows on the engine are.
In contrast, the REVO would "ACTUALLY" flow just the 100 hp (or less as required) continuously across ALL firing cycles, so there would be NO hammer effect and less load on the engine components, as well as less violent changes in load.

For this next example we’ll keep the 500hp jets and say that the vehicle can only handle 50 hp (10%) on the launch instead. While your controller may have a setting for 10%, there is NO solenoid in the world that can operate that low, whilst still flowing such large amounts at full flow, so you’re stuck, because your pulsed solenoids can’t deliver less than 100 hp (20%).

With a pulsed system you only have 2 ‘correct’ options for dealing with this situation (although I concede that there are others but those are just band aides) and they are to;

• activate the system later when the vehicle can handle it
OR
• reduce the jets to 250 hp and sacrifice top end performance

Obviously both ‘solutions’ are less than ideal!!!

With a REVO not only is it possible to deliver just 10% of the full flow but it is possible to go as low as 1%

Using the figures mentioned above the following are examples of the differences in the capabilities of pulsed and REVO technology and differences in the way a vehicle might respond. Whilst both pulsed and REVO systems can deliver progressive power, there is a huge difference in the way it is achieved, the potential each can achieve and the results on the vehicle.

Not only will the REVO deliver the power in a much more user and engine friendly manner, but it will deliver over a much wider range. Using the same 500 hp example, I’ll now explain the major differences in how the REVO does the job, in a way that pulsing solenoids never can;

In the above example, when a pulsed system delivers a 500 hp shot the first few firing cycles experience the FULL 500 hp just as if the vehicle had a fixed hit kit rather than a progressive system and responds accordingly (relatively violently), so even at 20% the vehicle is really having to deal with 500 hp. This means that although the average power increase is only 100 hp (20% of 500hp), the results are nothing like what they would have been if a fixed hit kit of just 100 hp had been used. It is for this reason that 3, 4 & 5 stage kits can produce as good if not better results than some pulsed progressive kits.
On the other hand with a REVO system the engine/vehicle experiences a GENUINE 20% power level, which is supplied to the engine over all engine cycles, WITHOUT any large initial spikes in power.
The impact this has on engine reliability and vehicle response is extremely beneficial alone but the benefits don’t end there.

Let’s just forget that major benefit for a minute and let’s assume that 20% of REVO power was still too much for the vehicle to handle, which it most certainly wouldn’t be when compared to a pulsed 20%. In this scenario you would no longer be limited to 20% being your lowest power option, as you could now go down as low as just ONE percent, meaning that as long as you have adequate traction for a full power launch without nitrous, it should be possible to activate the REVO system on the launch. As any racer will confirm; the sooner you can get even a small amount of nitrous into use on a run the more affect it will have on improving your acceleration time.

For the next scenario we’ll go back to the ‘actual’ situation where the vehicle WILL be able to handle MUCH MORE ‘GENUINE’ REVO power, keeping in mind the advantage that the REVO has of being able to deliver as little as just ONE percent start power. With a pulsed system the consequences of not being able to start lower than 20% and having the sledge hammer effect on the vehicles response, means that the potential maximum power (jet sizes) a vehicle can handle is very restricted. However, with the REVO system these restrictions are eliminated or at least substantially stretched, which means you can add much more power later in the run, whilst still delivering as little as required at the start.

The end result is better launch control, a more stable and more controlled run, with the ability to make as much power as the overall package can handle.

Hope you are taking time to lock in the appropriate patents (including in the US)!

-Bob C.

Thanks for the concern Bob but on this design I want everyone to copy it, as I have an even better design that I'll be launching as soon as the first copy hits the markets.

Patents can be "manipulated" and are expensive to defend so the best strategy is to have a better design up your sleeve to stay one step ahead of the pirate brigade.

will this work with existing hardware or do you need to update your progressive controller?

This is an entirely new technology and the ultimate aim is to produce a system that replaces "all" the current components of existing nitrous kits (including our own), however we are trying to introduce this change in stages that are relatively easy for our customers to accept.

The first and most basic system will "add" to existing systems (and could even be added to existing US kits although we won't be selling any for that purpose for the immediate future - if ever), will be supplied with a very basic electronic control system, that will open the valve at a predetermined rate to a predetermined maximum power setting (none of which will be adjustable), which will be aimed at the regular street customer.
At the same time we'll be launching a high end system that will also add to our existing systems but if will have a new Maximiser with an extensive range of new features that will allow customers to maximise the benefits of the new technology.

Ultimately we intend to offer a system that makes solenoids redundant and will incorporate many of the advanced nitrous system design features that I've developed (but not included in any systems I've marketed) over the last 25 years.

All existing customers will be given the first opportunity to purchase these products and any who want the full race system, will be given the opportunity of trading in their existing Maximiser (in the same way we have always done when introducing a more advanced product), so I think we've got it all pretty well covered.

l had a picture in my head as to how the smooooth system would look as usual l was totally wrong looks a lot more sophisticated than l thought it would be, lt wouldnt be difficult to conceal the new system if you were that way inclined, looks like theres a lot going on under the surface l suspect that the new system has been dressed down. a wolf in sheeps clothing. l think so, l would love to see the faces of the tech guys at nx or holley as they tried to work out what it was never mind how it works.

Well it certainly appears compact, would be nice to see a cut-away of it to see what we're talking about. Maybe to early for that?

Thats a bit like asking a chef for a list of his ingredients

John,

I'd love to show you the internals but there's no chance of that at least not on my forum for all the pirates and rip off merchants to see and not in the near future.

Fantastic work on the REVO …..!!!!!!

Cheers

2wiz: Nice. I didn't read all of this text, but I can say, nice. You have used great and simple idea to put step electrical motor to control variable valve like that one on simple water pipe that we use everyday... And to control flow of n2o...

This is one more proof, how simplest ideas are the best in real world...

All the best to REVO... And hope I'll get one soon...

Thanks mr_g and you're right simplest is always best but I can assure you it's NOT been simple to achieve this end result, because liquid nitrous is NOT a simple media to control unlike water.

Mind you if it had been, then someone would have made a suitable control valve years ago, instead of using generic solenoids, so it's good that it was so difficult, because it's meant that we're the first and probably the last to achieve it.

Looks like a similar theory to the 300 position stepper motors / valves we use on big refrigeration plant to control gas flow. But the ones I use are monsters compared to Trevs ones. How the hell did you manage to get the thing so small to control that sort of pressure Trev??

If nitrous was being used as a gas the job would have been a walk in the park but being liquid it's been a whole different story.

With regard to the size, that's certainly been a challenge and I actually designed a much smaller unit originally which worked fine. However for a number of reasons we opted for the current design which ended up bigger that I had hoped.

We're constantly carrying out R&D to improve on most aspects of our products, so we may yet manage to scale the Revo down even further.

Hi All

Fantastic results Trev

Having seen the Revos...I never once doubted they will work....

I wonder whats its like to invent such amazing stuff ??

Did you worry it wouldnt work ?

When you have invented as many things as you have, cannot you say to yourself....well the last thing worked and the dozen before...so this one will... ??


As far as myself and a LOT of other people are concerned....if you said to me...here is a magic Nitrous box the size of a penny that will increase your power by 200%...I would buy it instantly....and thats a reputation that I envy

Even though I use your system..I look at a fair number of cars with "other" systems on them and I can SEE they are crap....the engineering is awful, they also dont understand even the basic principles...and even when you try and explain....they either dont want to know or dont listen....which is frustrating for me but must send you mad I would think....

Congratulations again on a fantastic result.....and thinks to himself....I wonder how long before I can run Revos on my Porsche

All the best Brett

Thanks for the post Brett, makes it all worthwhile.

To most smart people it's obvious from my products that I’m a perfectionist and anyone who truly appreciates that affliction, knows it’s an ongoing situation.
However, in the real world a perfectionist is forced to be more realistic at some point in the procedures to achieving perfection and accept some compromises.
Applying this situation to the REVO, I eventually reached that point after YEARS of R&D testing and decided we were so close to perfection that I’d accept the remaining compromises and get the systems launched, whilst continue to work at eradicating the compromises and achieving total perfection.
Until recently the REVO system would have suffered from 3 compromises when used on certain applications, 2 of which would have applied to all applications, which I haven’t been entirely happy about and as a consequence we’ve been working extremely hard to come up with solutions to eradicate those ever since we realised they existed.

Furthermore, if you look at most of my products closely, you'll see I use a belts and braces approach as much as possible and a perfect example of that is the way we fit the inlet fitting to the Pulsoids.
1) We could use a parallel thread with a sealing end taper on the bottom face
or
2) We could use a taper thread and sealer
but what we actually use in both (a belt and braces)

With all the above in mind, I'm extremely pleased to report that we not only reached perfection on ALL 3 prior issues but we also achieved results much better than even I anticipated would be possible and we added yet another level to the belts and braces principles we applied to it as well.

I now believe we have a nitrous control system (REVO/MAX), that is as close to PERFECT as humanly possible.

Very impressive read Trevor. Up untill now I never realized how groundbreaking this system is for the nitrous community, now, and far into the future.

There is one thing that dawned on me however. I get the impression the REVO/MAX is primarily intended for higher horsepower levels whilst the traditional pulsoids are reserved for the enthusiast/ entry level.

If the REVO proves to be a succes in the years to come, is there perhaps a possibiliy that the pulsoid technology will be gradually phased out and replaced by a basic, cost effective version of the REVO for average users like me? I`m happy with an extra 100 bhp on my car and I don`t need the ultra performance capabilites the REVO currently offers. I would love to have a REVO kit on my car.

Nice to see that all being appreciated but one thing I can't have presented very well (because you didn't appreciate it), is that the REVO system offers huge advantages to low power application as well as race applications.

The main reasons the emphasis is on race applications at present are;

1) The REVO systems are very expensive at present due to needing to quickly recover as much of the R&D costs as possible.
2) The benefits of the REVO will substantially improve ETs
3) The combination of the 2 above means that hig end race customers are more inclined to buy the REVO system

Once we recover most of the R&D costs and increase production to a high enough level, the price of the REVO systems will come down (potentially substantially) and then I expect to see them in serious demand for regular street vehicles.

Please keep in mind that whilst the REVO system will allow ALL vehicles to use more nitrous power more safely, those are far from the only benefits it offers. Ultimate control is one of the main advantages and all vehicles will benefit from that.

I cant use any more power feking pulsiods maxed out me bike and they dont look like breaking down any time soon

Yes but you could use a little less earlier and actually a lot more than you can currently add at the start if you were using a REVO.

Here's a brief REVO update;

Our quickest Maltese motorcycle customer (Shawn Buttigieg) was racing for the first time using the REVO system recently and he made the following report;

Thanks to your REVOS I have impressed everybody and broke my own record at the 60ft. I did it in 1.29!!!!
I was launched like a dragster!!

The time I did was 8.2 and I did that with a major shifting problem. Three gears did not shift so I did it in 4th gear only!
Also, as soon as the bike hit 10,000 rpm, the NOS went off so I completed it with no NOS.

Rather impressive I'd say.

Once he gets ALL the gears we're confident he be running some seriously impressive 1/4 times to match his impressive 60ft times, then he can start working on improving all his break times.

I can also report that one of our UK car customers (Andy Nichols) has reported IMPRESSIVE dyno results recently and we hope he'll be sending us similarly impressive track results soon.

Cecil Towner (HTP Performance) has had some bad luck over this season (which has prevented him showing what the REVO's can do) but he's confident that he's sorted the problem (gearbox shift failures), that has been the ongoing cause so far and he's hopeful that he'll run some serious numbers at the next meeting.

We also expect to hear some good results from REVO systems being used on Busa's in Land Speed Record attempts over the next few months.

Hi All

I will put a post up later but....

With my brand new REVO system, I just took the U.K PORSCHE 928 1/4 MILE RECORD

To be honest , I didn't just take the record...I smashed it by over 3/10`s OF A SECOND !

I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooo chuffed !!!!!!!!!!!!

More later

All the best Brett

EXCELLENT job Brett.

At this rate I'm going to be losing track of all the outstanding results the REVO system has contributed to very soon.

Come on Brett!!

Give us the Gory details dude

Congrats on the PB mate