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 Post subject: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:32 am 
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Hey everybody,
Recently purchased NX Express Incognito system #60000 for my track 2011 Ninja 250R. Specs on the bike are:
250cc parallel twin, DOHC 4 valves per cylinder 15k redline
Carburetors :Keihin CVK30 x 2 jetted for sea level although I am running at 6000ft-10000ft
Compression: 11.6 to 1
Horsepower: 34

My question is about the jetting. The bike is currently jetted for sea level as delivered from japan. When I take the bike down to lower elevations it feels literally twice as fast and will pull fairly hard to about 95 where it tops out(although it has 5000k rpm to the redline with the re gearing).
At high elevation it tops out at 87 and takes a looong time to get from 80 to 87, around a minute at wide open throttle. If I install this kit with the smallest jet(14), fogging the airbox in front of the filter, how much of a richer re-jet would be needed at high elevation? My goal is to get this bike to do at least 100 so I can keep up with lighter riders on the straights. Thanks for any help you guys can offer, this is my first time running juice

Here's what I'm thinking on the elevation issue: On avg we loose about .5 psi per 1k ft, so 6k-8k ft where i live is a loss of 4 psi; 1 bar - 4 psi is 10.7 psi, so i could run stock jets stock everything and turbo charge it up to 4 psi without changing a thing and it would be like i was at sea level(peak hp), conversly i can nitrous charge it say 15 hp and only be up say 5 hp from a stock one at sea level(estimations).


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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:14 am 
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So upon inspection of the kit I noticed the smallest jet is at 14 hp. Also disappointed that the NX express kit wasn't complete due to lacking every fitting/hose except for the one that connects to the bottle. The cost of what's missing puts me at/above a WON kit, and so far this is the only No2 forum that deals with street bikes and not just drag bikes. WON do you have any complete comparable kits with an option for smaller jets? Looking for around a 2.5lb bottle as nitrous is hard to come by in my area. Thanks for any help


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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:25 am 
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NX250ninja wrote:
Hey everybody,
Hi and welcome to my forum.

Recently purchased NX Express Incognito system #60000 for my track 2011 Ninja 250R. Specs on the bike are:
250cc parallel twin, DOHC 4 valves per cylinder 15k redline
Carburetors :Keihin CVK30 x 2 jetted for sea level although I am running at 6000ft-10000ft
Compression: 11.6 to 1
Horsepower: 34
I guess you haven't seen the posts made by our resident Ninja 250 owner/expert - I think you'll find the following thread worth reading; viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6317

My question is about the jetting. The bike is currently jetted for sea level as delivered from japan. When I take the bike down to lower elevations it feels literally twice as fast and will pull fairly hard to about 95 where it tops out(although it has 5000k rpm to the redline with the re gearing).
At high elevation it tops out at 87 and takes a looong time to get from 80 to 87, around a minute at wide open throttle. If I install this kit with the smallest jet(14), fogging the airbox in front of the filter, how much of a richer re-jet would be needed at high elevation?
You would NOT need to re-jet to be richer, you would need to re-jet to be LEANER, as there is already less oxygen at higher altitude, so what you need is either more nitrous or LESS fuel. I can't predict how much adjustment would be needed but I'll be able to guide you safely to determining what's needed very easily and we have a suitable range of jets to be able to deal with that.

My goal is to get this bike to do at least 100 so I can keep up with lighter riders on the straights. Thanks for any help you guys can offer, this is my first time running juice
That'll be a breeze.

Here's what I'm thinking on the elevation issue: On avg we loose about .5 psi per 1k ft, so 6k-8k ft where i live is a loss of 4 psi; 1 bar - 4 psi is 10.7 psi, so i could run stock jets stock everything and turbo charge it up to 4 psi without changing a thing and it would be like i was at sea level(peak hp), conversly i can nitrous charge it say 15 hp and only be up say 5 hp from a stock one at sea level(estimations).

Turbo wise that's correct but you don't seem to be on the right track with the nitrous, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:00 am 
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It sounds like some gearing issues if you have 5000 to the red line. What gear set are you running?
The best thing you can do is find a way to advance the ignition . I thought the 2011 ninja 250 in England is fuel injected. The rev limit is 13500 and Only makes 26 hp stock . Do you have a full exhaust?

Turbo on these bikes is not an easy thing. You can do it but would need fuel injection.

If you have an air box and want to try fogging. I would go to 112 jet and try from there . But really you should be able to tune to go 100 at 6000 feet.


Last edited by Racer X on Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:01 am 
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NX250ninja wrote:
So upon inspection of the kit I noticed the smallest jet is at 14 hp.
We go down to as low as 2.5 HP

Also disappointed that the NX express kit wasn't complete due to lacking every fitting/hose except for the one that connects to the bottle.
It's not much use like that!!!

The cost of what's missing puts me at/above a WON kit,
And that's before you take in to account the fact that NX solenoids will fail and need costly servicing kits or replacement solenoids sooner rather than later, plus you'll get far more efficient use of your nitrous with our systems, as most of the nitrous in ANY US brand kit is wasted in purging or failing to deliver the correct mixture, due to the need to purge but not doing so. WON systems do NOT need purging to achieve optimum mixture instantly, that is as long as you don't live in a very hot country.
Furthermore, the FREE advice is worth more than whatever you pay for ANY nitrous kit, because without it the kit can be next to useless.


and so far this is the only No2 forum that deals with street bikes and not just drag bikes.
I have 35 years personal experience of nitrous in most applications, so you'll get the best possible advice here.

WON do you have any complete comparable kits with an option for smaller jets? Looking for around a 2.5lb bottle as nitrous is hard to come by in my area. Thanks for any help
We can supply you with EXACTLY the system you require as we can custom assemble such a system for you. For full details please complete our contacts page and one of my team will get back to you with all your options.

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30 years of nitrous experience and counting!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:03 am 
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Racer X wrote:
It sounds like some gearing issues if you have 5000 to the red line. What gear set are you running.
The best thing you can do is find a way to advance the ignition . I thought the 2011 ninja 250 in England is fuel injected. The rev limit is 13500 and Only makes 26 hp stock . Do you have a full exhaust?

Turbo on these bikes is not an easy thing. You can do it but would need fuel injection.

If you have an air box and want to try fogging. I would go to 112 jet and try from there . But really you should be able to tune to go 100 at 6000 feet.

I'm pretty sure he's not in England Eric, as we don't have any altitude issues here. Nor do I think he's suggesting the use of a turbo, that was just to make a point. What advice would you give him on his choice of nitrous system?

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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:31 am 
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There is no choice. With every other "kit" you will find it does not have the parts you need. Then the parts you get fail. The plastic bottle knobs crack and break off . The solenoid will work for a while then just make a buzzing sound . Then work again. Best part is you will NEVER get consistent liquid nitrous delivered to the engine using anything but a WON Pulsoid.

I talk to people that use other systems all the time. They have all the same problems I've described above. The Wizards of nitrous has solved all of the problems I had.

The only choice is the Wizards of nitrous.


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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:22 pm 
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Thanks for the responses, I'm located in the mountains of Arizona, USA. The bike is completely stock, including the exhaust and is a carbureted California emissions model(JBFA). The gearing is up one tooth (15t) in front and down one tooth in the rear(can't remember exact tooth count). It's geared for top end as I do a lot of freeway riding down the mountain to the city.

After reading through Racer X's thread, I'm wondering if the stock engine can handle a "dry" shot of nitrous safely. Sounds like a wet kit is the only safe way to equally meter the nitrous between cylinders. Just looking to increase the 34 hp to about 40, since it looks like the stock clutch will only handle around 40hp.


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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:03 am 
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NX250ninja wrote:
Thanks for the responses, I'm located in the mountains of Arizona, USA.
Thought you'd be in the US.

After reading through Racer X's thread, I'm wondering if the stock engine can handle a "dry" shot of nitrous safely.
I don't know where you picked up the idea that 'DRY' is even an option, because 'DRY' is ONLY and option on injected vehicles. You'd have to run permanently excessively rich to allow the safe use of adding nitrous ONLY and that's not really an option on a road bike, as you'd lose so much power when not using the nitrous.

Sounds like a wet kit is the only safe way to equally meter the nitrous between cylinders.
We can meter nitrous equally on both wet and dry kits but NOBODY ELSE CAN as they don't even care about such matters. :evil:

Just looking to increase the 34 hp to about 40, since it looks like the stock clutch will only handle around 40hp.
Wet is the best option for your application and with a few minor mods (surface grind the steel plates & fit stronger springs and you should be able to handle a lot more than 40 hp.

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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:52 am 
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If the bike is stock the 34 hp is measured at the crank . You have about 26 hp at the wheel. But with bolt on modifications you can get about 32. From there it gets tricky.And expensive.

The bike can handle anything as long as it is consistent. If you have the jetting rich and add a consistent amount of nitrous then it will be fine. Fogging the air box might work. But if you could just do it with a wet shot it would be better. There is not much room under the tank for more fuel lines and the pulsoid . It would be tough.

If you have a 15/44 (stock is 14/45) you are geared for a top speed around 119 mph. Try winding out fifth gear. Then see how high you can get in sixth . I am willing to bet it goes faster in fifth gear.

Your max power is going to be around 11000 RPM. see if you can get that RPM in either gear. And be careful. I hope you have a track near by.

The biggest problem is the exhaust. It is filled with catalytic converters. Also the air box has a fire screen and a rubber snorkel. it is only pulling air in through a slit 1/2 an inch wide.

Check out this web forum. www.ninjette.org

You can find all the answers to modifying the ninja there. And with Trevor's help adding nitrous will be something that is real. No one has a 250 ninja spraying nitrous on the street. You could be the first.


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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:23 am 
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5th gear gets me almost to 90, when I shift into 6th I slowly drop down to about 80 and stay there. If I have a steep hill and a tail wind I can push it up to about 95 in 6th after a couple miles :lol: Thanks for the site, looks like I can do a few inexpensive upgrades to help out the nitrous :D WON , contact memo sent thanks for your expertise :cheers:


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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Message received and you should have a reply within 24 hours. :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:53 pm 
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where else would a chap post on a site about a "competitors" system, still get sound advice, and others helping him out?

nowhere!

i agree that you have gone too long in your gearing, on my bandit 12 with stock gearing it couldn't pull the red line in top gear, i dropped a tooth on the front and could then pull red line in top with no loss of top speed but increase acceleration. i understand that you to long miles and therefore don't want to be revving the nuts of the bike for hours on end, but you also don't want to be slogging it, because ... correct me if I'm wrong here Trevor, if you operate nitrous is too high a gear when the engine is under load that is not good practice either.

my advice for what it's worth is to sell the NX kit on and get the best, get WON.

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 Post subject: Re: Nitrous 2011 Ninja 250r
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:54 pm 
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Thanks for the post Neil and yes you are right it is unwise to use nitrous under EXCESSIVE load but determining when the load is excessive is not a clear cut matter, as increasing the gearing to some degree is advantageous (and even essential), if you want to maximise the benefits of nitrous to achieve maximum top speeds. :idea:

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